Poor ANT Connectivity

Just went for my first short bike ride with my f5, with the following ANT devices paired:

Stages Power Meter
Garmin HRM Run
Garmin Speed Sensor
Garmin Varia Rear Radar Light
Garmin Tempe Sensor

All of which I'd previously paired and set-up with my f5 without any problems. All of these devices (apart from the Tempe) were also paired with my Edge 1000 mounted on my handlebars.

Previously, I had all of these (except the Varia) paired with my f3 and the only connection problems I'd encounter during rides would be the Tempe (mounted under my saddle) would sometimes drop out for a single 1-minute reading.

However, with my f5 it's a different (and not good) story - Even before I started the ride, my Stages PM kept disconnecting and reconnecting, and at the end of the ride there's no power recorded at all. During the ride I kept getting messages come up on the f5 that the Varia light had disconnected and reconnected several times. Connection with the Tempe seems to have been lost for about 80% of the time as the temperature shows long blocks clearly taken from the f5's internal sensor (where it's much warmer as it's picking up skin temperature). The heart rate trace also shows a point where it's dropped the connection with the chest strap.

As I said, my setup is the same as I've been using with my f3 for the last 2+ years and apart from lots of very short Tempe drops, I never experienced anything like this. I've also checked the activity as recorded on my Edge 1000, and everything's fine on there.

Is anyone else experiencing similar?

FIT file can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eei3y3sfcj8151d/73JD2214.FIT?dl=0

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

got any mates with PMs locally who you could try and see if it's "just" stages or the Fenix?? If your anywhere near Leeds your welcome to try against my P1 pedals.

I've paired it with the ANT+ power output from my Tacx Neo which as far as the Garmin is concerned is just another PM, and it's rock solid. I suspect though that as the trainer doesn't have to worry about battery life, it transmits a very strong signal.

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Yeah, I know the Stages broadcast power isn't exactly stellar, though personally I've never had a problem with my f3 or Edge 1000.

I've just re-tested it with a fenix 5S, and disappointingly the results were the same - it took me several minutes to even detect the Stages PM to do the initial pairing, and then when it did finally pair, it couldn't maintain a connection for more than a couple of seconds, even with the crank stationary and the f5S held within 20cm of the PM. Unfortunately, this would seem to rule out the possibility that my original f5 is in any way faulty.

So, it looks like the "blame" lies with both parties - Stages for their weak signal, and (it would seem) Garmin for having implemented a poorer ANT+ antenna in the f5 than older products. If it was only the Stages that was causing issues, then I'd say this wasn't a significant issue as far as the f5 series was concerned. However, the fact that I also experienced other dropouts (Varia rear light, Tempe and chest HRM) to a lesser degree really tells me that the Garmin's ANT+ reception is inadequate.

This still doesn't really explain why earlier testers haven't picked this up, but I guess if it hadn't been for the Stages mega-dropouts I wouldn't have even bothered posting about a couple of minor HRM dropouts and I'm not sure many people have a Tempe or a Varia RRL.

So as it stands, it looks like I'm going to have to drop lots more money on a different PM and hope Garmin can do so something with their software to improve ANT+ connectivity with their own devices!

Agree with everything you wrote. I'd look at DCRainmaker's reviews but I do know that if you want the "other" crank arm solution from 4iiii the prices are a little cheaper than Stages and they have no signal issues at all. I am a Stages users on bike with flat bar handles so I'm not slung as far forward. My Edge 820 gets a good signal when on a Stem Mount but I've been in denial about my plan to use my upcoming 5S for everything including biking to have it all on one device (for fatigue tracking etc.) while using the 820 unpaired to Garmin Connect as a backup and large screen... I'm fairly certain I'll be up a creek since the F3/3HR had many problems for folks and based on your head to head comparison with the F3 the F5 is *worse*. I'm sorta hoping that since I'm short and my frame is smaller, and I sit more upright with the flat bars maybe I won't have as much of a problem but I really wish I had gotten the cheaper 4iiii at this point.

0 dcrainmaker over 8 years ago

For fun, try disconnecting everything but Stages & HR. See if it drops...

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

For fun, try disconnecting everything but Stages & HR. See if it drops...

Hi Ray,

I've tried exactly that today with the f5 (no change), and when I tried pairing the f5S it was fresh out of the box, updated to 2.40 and with no other devices even paired or turned on.

Have you got a Stages lying around or are you still away on the slopes?

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

...my plan to use my upcoming 5S for everything including biking to have it all on one device (for fatigue tracking etc.) while using the 820 unpaired to Garmin Connect as a backup and large screen... I'm fairly certain I'll be up a creek since the F3/3HR had many problems for folks and based on your head to head comparison with the F3 the F5 is *worse*. I'm sorta hoping that since I'm short and my frame is smaller, and I sit more upright with the flat bars maybe I won't have as much of a problem but I really wish I had gotten the cheaper 4iiii at this point.

Yeah, I'm not convinced this is fixable so I can see me going the 4iiii route; money I could have done without spending but hopefully I'll be able to shift my Stages on eBay. The setup you describe is exactly what I did with my f3 and want to do with my f5 - record on the fenix so it's got the full picture of all my activities, but use my Edge 1000 for the screen and as a backup in case the fenix crashes during the ride. That always worked perfectly with the f3 (I think the only times I had to use the Edge recording were down to user error, like forgetting to press 'start'). I'm glad I've had my Edge running (on my outdoor rides) since I got my f5 though as at least that's had the power data which the f5 has dropped.

0 dcrainmaker over 8 years ago

Hi Ray,

I've tried exactly that today with the f5 (no change), and when I tried pairing the f5S it was fresh out of the box, updated to 2.40 and with no other devices even paired or turned on.

Have you got a Stages lying around or are you still away on the slopes?

While up in Helsinki at the moment, I don't currently have a bike with a Stages unit on it back home. And I don't think any of my bikes have the same BB as the Stages crank arm I have on the side, as they're running other power meters with other BB's for testing. I will have a new Stages to put on it next week however, but that won't be here this week.

As for the issue at hand, the reason I ask is I saw something a month or so with Di2 causing drops of other ANT+ sensors. It came up in a beta firmware out of nowhere (after weeks of being happy), but I haven't re-tested that specific combo to see if it's since been fixed (they were working on it last I heard). It's on my to-do list for tomorrow when I return home and do one final sweep of any beta bugs I saw to validate they've been fixed/addressed. I'd be surprised if that was not fixed by now.

The only other connectivity bug-issue I know I currently have on production is a Connect IQ Data Field droppage issue with Stryd power meter, that they and Stryd are trying to figure out.

0 TURNANDSLIP over 8 years ago

F5 unstable connection with KickR

Hi guys,

I'm having real issues with the connection between the F5 and KickR. I can only connect if the watch is within about 75cm of the KickR so as soon as I put my hands on the bars, it drops the power and speed readings. The only way I can maintain a connection is by riding one handed with the watch directly over the RickR which is somewhat inconvenient. I did a head to head comparison with my 920xt and the "old" 920xt is rock solid. I've already don't the reset to factory, Bluetooth off, only the KickR on, all just the same. I really don't want this F5 to be worse than my previous unit. I've emailed Garmin for support but don't hold much hope. Looks to me like a software update is needed, hopefully not a defective unit. Perils of early adoption

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

Hi guys,

I'm having real issues with the connection between the F5 and KickR. I can only connect if the watch is within about 75cm of the KickR so as soon as I put my hands on the bars, it drops the power and speed readings. The only way I can maintain a connection is by riding one handed with the watch directly over the RickR which is somewhat inconvenient. I did a head to head comparison with my 920xt and the "old" 920xt is rock solid. I've already don't the reset to factory, Bluetooth off, only the KickR on, all just the same. I really don't want this F5 to be worse than my previous unit. I've emailed Garmin for support but don't hold much hope. Looks to me like a software update is needed, hopefully not a defective unit. Perils of early adoption

That sounds very much like my case. Garmin support have already been in touch with me and I've sent them some specifics, I'm shortly going to go out on a quick ride with my f5, f3 and Edge 1000 all paired so I can send them the 3 FIT files to take a look at. I'll also post them here if anyone's interested.

To me this looks like the f5 antenna is weaker (whether that's a hardware or software restriction I don't know, let's hope it's the software though) but many devices still transmit strong enough for the f5 to pick them up. However, there seems to be a growing number of examples of devices which transmitting weaker signals which the f5 can't pick up.

I would have expected the ANT+ specification to include something about minimum signal strength at a set distances away from the transmitter.

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

I've now done a test ride using the f5, my f3 and my Edge 1000 at the same time with the same sensors (where supported). I was hoping to do an hour ride, but time was against me and I only managed to pull in 15 mins.

FIT files are here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq85egy4u39pguo/Activities.zip?dl=0 - I'd be interested to know if there's anything relevant in there if there's someone who knows their way around a FIT file.

Unfortunately, even though I checked the Stages PM was showing as connected to the f5, it looks like it didn't even manage to stay connected long enough for me to start the activity as there's no power readings at all for the activity recorded on the f5 (though it's flawless on the f3 and Edge).

The Tempe also shows it's lost communication with the f5 about 60% of the time (it jumps to the much higher temperature f5 integrated sensor), whereas the f3 has kept its connection with the Tempe for the whole ride. The Edge doesn't support the Tempe.

I don't think it gets captured in the FIT file, but the f5 lost contact and reconnected with the Varia rear radar light several times. The f3 doesn't support the Varia, but I had no such disconnection messages on the Edge.

The chest-worn 'HRM Run' and the Garmin speed sensor on the front wheel seem to have held the connection this time.

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Woodview west

Hi guys,

I'm having real issues with the connection between the F5 and KickR. I can only connect if the watch is within about 75cm of the KickR so as soon as I put my hands on the bars, it drops the power and speed readings. The only way I can maintain a connection is by riding one handed with the watch directly over the RickR which is somewhat inconvenient. I did a head to head comparison with my 920xt and the "old" 920xt is rock solid. I've already don't the reset to factory, Bluetooth off, only the KickR on, all just the same. I really don't want this F5 to be worse than my previous unit. I've emailed Garmin for support but don't hold much hope. Looks to me like a software update is needed, hopefully not a defective unit. Perils of early adoption

I am also having issue with Kickr - my 5x sits there "Searching" for the Kickr. My Fenix 3 has no issues and connects as soon as I enter the room. I have to manually connect my 5x every time I want to use the Kickr. I will try holding it really close to see i that helps....