Well, in the others' defense, you did say "Garmin causes more problems than they ever fix," which while perhaps explained away as frustration, isn't exactly accurate.
On the flip side, because some don't have a problem doesn't mean that no one does. The GPS Accuracy thread was huge for a reason. I love my Fenix 3HR but I'm not so loyal to it to deny the fact that I've had at least 2 GPS watches that outshine its GPS accuracy. And there clearly seems to be something with the altimeter on some even though I've never had a problem on my watch.
The irony is in stating "some people just like to complain" which implies ignorance to the fact that it is largely because of complaints that positive change to a product ever occurs. A good company banks on the data they've received from a previous product in order to improve the next one while hopefully trying to fix the fixable in the current one.
"The irony is in stating "some people just like to complain" which implies ignorance to the fact that it is largely because of complaints that positive change to a product ever occurs. A good company banks on the data they've received from a previous product in order to improve the next one while hopefully trying to fix the fixable in the current one."
False! Garmin is not going to change anything based off a complaint that's not backed up by data...
I agree that the fenix line gets a lot of direct attention from Garmin and that the fenix line is one area of these forums where Garmin reps actually read and respond but the bulk of the changes that get made come from the beta threads and not from random rants that are not supported by any data...
I agree that some are experiencing issues and I hope Garmin gets it resolved but instead of ranting about it, send Garmin the logs and data that they need to address it...
Let's go with the reverse. No complaints would mean greater progress, then? That seems suspect. We could probably go through history of epic product failures that may not have seen the light of day, or gone unfixed for a much longer period of time if not for instances of complaining. To me it's worth the irrational rants in order to move things forward. It beats the alternative.
Additionally, it is entirely possible to discuss ideas and issues here on this forum and to submit a support ticket at the same time.
It is a net positive to the manufacturer and to the end-users to observe-and-report, whether it happens to be a negative report (described as "complaining, whining," or any other derisive term some impatient people may use), and some reports are positive. All if it is relevant.
It is absolutely ok to discuss issues. No one has said otherwise. As long as they bring at least a bit of value. But a statment like "Altimeter in F3HR is not working" Brings absolutely 0 value. Or "GPS in F3HR is not accurate" again 0 value. If either of these is put into context then it is a different thing. There are units suffering from altimeter issues. And there have been units with very bad GPS accuracy. But it is not true for every unit. And I would argue most of the units are just fine as there is only this little discussion on the forums.
Also just about 0 value when someone says "The F3 isn't as accurate as _____" (fill in blank with any of a variety of other brands or previous Garmin models.
I've been (basically) shouted down in a few different GPS accuracy threads but here goes: Has anyone tested a F3 or F3HR against a USATF verified course, running the tangents, and then compared that data to Garmin's published specs? I have yet to see it.
And yet (IMHO) the majority of GPS accuracy complaints mainly boil down to some variant of this: "Well, we ran a local 10k, and my friend's Suunto Ambit measured 6.3 miles and my 910XT measured 6.2 miles, but the F3 measured only 6.0 miles -- so the F3 GPS accuracy SUCKS!!!!"
Yes, it's a damn expensive piece of kit. Yes, we should expect the device to do all the things its marketers claimed, and do them as well as they claimed it would (battery life, GPS accuracy, etc) -- and shout loudly if it doesn't!
But it's like some people expect some sort of MILSPEC or USGS accuracy on a wrist-based commercial product. And when it does not live up to those expectations, they rant...but only use examples based on other products, not known specs and known true measurements. There is a good reason USATF uses that little bicycle wheel to verify course lengths!
If someone said "Well, Garmin says the F3 is supposed to be accurate to within +/- 10 meters and the USATF on this course was 13.1 miles. I ran the tangents and my F3 said I ran 13.9 miles, which is off by way more than it should be over that course length, so I have a tech support issue filed with Garmin..." THAT would be a different story than "Man, just look at this crappy map of my activity where it shows me 10 feet off the road I was running on!". etc etc etc
OK, (steps off soap box) rant done. Standing ready to possibly be shouted down again.
And for the record, see my signature below: and I am planning to get an F5X as soon as I can, and then do some F3 to F5X comparisons, ensure stability etc, before I sell my F3. But I have NEVER had a problem with my GPS accuracy. Has the watch been a bit quirky and have some of the FW updates made things worse in some ways? Sure -- but do I have a (cue Louis C K voice) WRIST-BASED freaking GPS COMPUTER that talks to SATELLITES in OUTER SPACE every ONE SECOND and then tells me where I am on the planet to within about 30 FEET accuracy!?!?!?! YES!!!
Great post! Nice to see some realism and context for a change. These are complex devices and do require a bit more than 'turn on and run'. Do Garmin over complicate things? Possibly. Do many of the people who post problems fail to understand how to use the device properly? More often than not yes!
I think the Fenix 5X and what ever other variants come out, will be another great watch with some issues at the start that will get resolved quickly. Then, like other devices, it'll settle down to do it's job quite nicely for the majority of users, while a minority rant and rave about how crap it is and how poor Garmin is.
"do it's job quite nicely for the majority of users, while a minority rant and rave about how crap it is and how poor Garmin is."
Perhaps even more likely is that the vast majority of the users fall squarely between the two. For even reasonable people - who hopefully number far more than the minority that think Garmin is crap and far more than the minority who rant against such people - can think the device does its job nicely while still having issues with it.
And still the point stands: If no one ever complained little progress would ever be made. A single complaint's value thereby factually has a value > 0.
Just curious.. I may have missed a post or a review, but is it known what kind of GPS chipset will be in the 5X? (If you look at the text strings in the 0.88 firmware you get an idea, but that text can be anything and be absolutely meaningless).
