Data source for FirstBeat metrics

A lot of users of Garmin foot pods have experienced a changed (usually lower) VO2Max when they started using the foot pod instead of the GPS. So this would indicate that Firstbeat metrics use the pace from the foot pod. This behaviour will probably not change, just because you use a Stryd foot pod instead of a Garmin foot pod, assuming that you have set your watch to use the foot pod as a pace source.

Stryd power is ignored by Firstbeat. I have that information from HermanB.

Thanks Allan, yes my question could probably be more precise as I was thinking about foot pods in general as source for pace/distance into FirstBeat algoritms, not specifically Stryd as I didn’t expect FirstBeat to take (Stryd)power into the equation.

So, you are saying that I could disable GPS and still get Firstbeat metrics? Will it work using the native treadmill app as well? (Winter is coming...)
I’m asking because I previously had the VA3 (w/o FP) which only calculated VO2max when running outside with GPS. VO2max in the treadmill app is disabled by Garmin as it seems they are hung up in the mindset that you absolutely HAVE to use GPS in order to get reliable data for pace, it’s not a limitation from FirstBeat according previous discussions with HermanB and their webpage. That’s why I suspect that the (Garmin) watches are using GPS as source for FirstBest metrics regardless of FP settings.

Hopefully I’m wrong! :)

EDIT: Here’s a link where FirstBeat mentions pods as source for speed, but not specifically for Garmin wathces https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/fitness-level/

I have seen those threads too.

And in one of them, I actually convinced a Garmin employee that their logic did not hold up. That was for indoor biking, which will probably now be corrected. The logic failure is the same for running with a foot pod, since Firstbeat uses power for cycling and pace for running.

My guess - and it is only a guess - would be that the Firstbeat metrics do use the pod pace, but some bright Garmin developer has nevertheless decided to disable Firstbeat when there is no GPS data.

Had a look in the manual for the F5+ and everywhere it specifically says «running with GPS» or «running outdoors», but it could be just outdated standard texts of course.

I fully agree that the logic doesn’t hold up, especially when we consider the other input which is HR and they don’t see any issue to allow this to come from the OHR sensor...

Nevertheless - I have no problem if GPS was the default, but I wish Garmin would give us the choice to override it!

By the way Allan, I hope your guess is correct which would mean that it’s possible to use the normal run app with GPS enabled and pace from FP to get data even on the treadmill - however it’s really a silly workaround that shouldn’t be necessary.

Garmin-Heath I hope you’re taking notes! ;)

Coming to think of it, there actually is a difference between indoor cycling with a power meter and indoor running with a foot pod:
The foot pod doesn't know if you have chosen a slope % on the threadmill which gives you the same running effort at the same pace, as outdoor running would.

So Garmin can to some extent claim that indoor running with foot pod doesn't qualify. Of course that would put us Stryd users in an awkward situation since we can actually adjust the slope on the threadmill until we get the same running power as we would outdoor at the same pace.

That’s a valid point, but I still think Garmin should give us the choice (manual settings) :)

..hmm well i have the same setup you have SAHO, and my vo2max is still being tracked, what creates the data beats me, its dropped by 1 point in the last 4 weeks since i got stryd which means nothing in the grerater scheme of things... what i do notice is that i have garmin beta running power added to my outside and treadmill runs, as well as stryd, and while both are reasonably similar in charting terms, the value garmin reports for runing power is much higher. TBH if you have stryd anyway do you really care about vo2max? the stryd powercentre/imporve tab and the TRIANGLE i look at a lot, that i find quite compelling and custom to me

Garmin-Heath Just a friendly reminder, are you able to shed some light on this subject? Specifically I would like to know which speed data goes into the FirstBeat algorithms - foot pod or GPS?

HermanB feel free to jump in as well!