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Another Maps Question

benha
over 6 years ago
Hello!

One of the reasons I bought the Descent is that it has a GPS in it, which I plan to use to mark some shallow dive sites I'd like to be able to return to. (Yes, I completely understand that the GPS doesn't work underwater :-)

I haven't used this thing extensively yet, but I've noticed a few worrisome / annoying things that leads to questions / comments:

1. When in "dive" mode I can't use the maps. Only in apnea mode. So if I've got my computer set up for diving so when I descend it does the right thing and starts a scuba dive, it doesn't seem like it's all that easy to navigate (by swimming) on the surface to a particular spot and then just drop down. Hey, Garmin, when I'm on a surface interval for scuba (ie: I have GPS connectivity) could you please allow me to use the map the same way I can in the apnea modes?

2. In addition to navigating to a known spot, I want to be able to bounce to the surface, mark a spot I'm hovering over, and then descend again. (Please no comments about inadvisable dive profiles - these are shallow dives.) If I get to the surface and stick my hand up long enough for the GPS to connect will it record that location? Or do I have to leave dive mode and mark it, and then come back? The manual doesn't discuss this.

3. Back to the theme of the first question, it'd be great to be able to quickly grab AND NAME a waypoint any time I have GPS connectivity regardless of the mode.



(The use case for all this is that I do a lot of lobster hunting on tanks. Lobsters live in little holes in the rocks that are used over and over by different lobsters. So if you find a honey hole, you want to be able to mark it and then find it again next time you're in the area.)


4. Finally, I accidentally left the watch in one of the apnea modes the first time I used it for a scuba dive and it happily let me do a 60' dive for 35 minutes as an apnea dive. Only later (after being really confused at how little info the computer had provided me) did I realize I wasn't in a scuba mode. This seems an odd design feature. It'd be good to be able to set a threshold of time/depth where the computer assumes that you've made a mistake, that you're not diving apnea, and then switches the dive to a scuba mode. Those settings are clearly going to be diver dependent since there are lots of apnea divers that can go a lot deeper for a lot longer than I can, but for me I'd set it up that if I'm deeper than 50' and/or down for over 90 seconds (and I still have a pulse) it should assume that I've got a bottle on my back. Oh, and out of curiosity, if I'd figured this out during my dive would it have allowed me to switch from apnea to single-gas under water and carried over the dive profile so the computer would be able to calculate things correctly? I can see this happening again at some point in the future...



Thanks,
-Ben
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    My guess is the reason you don't have a reply is that your use case (at least 1-3) is so narrow and specific and very few users would want it. I doubt such a feature would be added and if so, it would be so far down the queue that it would be years before it would be implemented. Good underwater navigation skills would be a better solution to the problem.

    For 4. I can see it would be difficult to implement and there'd be exceptions. Some free divers are very good at holding their breath. At what depth and time would it make the switch? How should the Mk1 behave if someone was going for a free diving record? As with all other aspects of diving, you need to ensure that you are ready for a dive (Pre-dive check: got weights?, Tank turned on?, etc..). I see this is just another thing you as a diver need to check before you dive. Just like making sure the gas mix is correct.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    For 1-3, while I appreciate that at least #3 is perhaps a bit esoteric, #2 is simply a question and #1 strikes me as a pretty useful feature in a GPS-enabled device. While I appreciate the "good underwater navigation skills" notion, I defy you to jump off a dive boat swinging in the wind, anchored 400' from a waypoint marking the location of an object the size of a phone booth, and underwater navigate your way to it in water with 12' of viz and 2kts of current. It's not impossible, but it's a hell of a lot easier to surface-swim your way over there and drop down right on top of it.

    On #4, I agree that there's user configurability in order here. They have that for other features (deco lockout, for example) and certainly could add it here. True we're all supposed to check things before we dive. Also true that most of us have jumped in with [valve closed | no weights | no fins | whatever] at some point. Those items are readily discoverable - the computer issue I describe would probably not be noticed until you're on the bottom with an unknown no-deco bottom time. I've got a garage full of tools that a safe, knowledgable user wouldn't hurt themselves with, but they all come with safety guards. For a reason. I don't see this as any different...
  • 0 over 5 years ago
    I used the Descent to navigate on the surface to a site, and did not end GPS Navigation before diving. The Descent stayed in GPS nav mode for over an hour underwater. I did notice that it was still trying to navigate, but decided to let it go and see what it would do. The Descent is my backup computer, not my primary. I think there needs to be some thought given to how modes are prioritized. Once the Descent detects I am underwater, it should have exited GPS Nav and gone into dive mode. The apnea issue is tougher, at what point do you decide it is not a free dive and they must be on scuba? But other modes are a little easier to make that judgement.
  • 0 over 5 years ago
    Some of the decisions that Garmin has made in relation to this watch, make no sense whatsoever. They allow you to run an activity but if you start diving, that activity doesn’t stop and automatically go into dive mode. It’s entirely feasible that you could be using the “Navigate” activity and you back out to go to the main screen. Unless you have a data field reflecting that your GPS is running, you may forget and start your dive.

    So Garmin’s brain trust says, it’s ok that your watch doesn’t go into dive mode if you have an activity running, you don’t need it. Yet if you’re in a pool and you want to turn it off, they say “NO NO NO, you can’t do that!”

    They’re so worried about safety on one end, but the other end they shrug their shoulders and say “Eh, oh well. Guess they shouldn’t have started an activity huh?”

    If Garmin wants consistency across the board, then as soon as that Depth sensor records water pressure for “x” seconds at “x” Depth, then it stops all running applications (with the exception of Timers or Stopwatches...I’ve tested out the SW during a dive) and starts the dive. After the EOD timer ends, then ask the user if they want to continue the activity that was running.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago
    Hi,
    Garmin so weird behavior, If I were to take this gps underwater where my underwater devise is transponding gps signal to it , it just wont pick it up? Yap, that is the problem. For underwater gps-ing I use smart phone water-proofed to 50m. Breadcrumbs, maps, all there and no such Garmin thing telling me what I can or can't.
    Question, if Garmin gps were to work under water, say it is possible (hahah), would you say the maps, tracking screen is not too small for underwater navigation?
    cheers
    Bogdan
  • 0 over 5 years ago
    GPS signals are absorbed by water and the receivers do not see a signal. You could leave the Descent in GPS Nav mode and somehow surface it periodically to get bread crumb trail, but then you cannot use it as a dive computer. If you want a bread crumb trail, you are probably best off using a regular receiver in a waterproof box that can either be towed on the surface, or surfaced at regular intervals.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago
    Hi,
    I understand what you are saying. (I'm a developer) My gps sys works under 30 meters of water. A dilemma is what to use for the bread crumbs tracking, (what diver would like) smart watch (Garmin won't allow gps to work under water) but some other smart watches don't have this therefore question for you how you feel if the display is not too small for tracking underwater.
    cheers
    Bodziu