Struggling to understand Basecamp and Explore App with my 67i

I know this topic is software related but it bridges two pieces of software, Basecamp and the Explore App, for reference I use both on Apple devices. I picked the 67i group because that is the device I just purchased.  

I am a long time Garmin user and very used to the very deep menu based operations of their devices. What I am struggling with is ease of use creating and cataloging my hikes. I like to collect data on my hikes, the trails I take, waypoints of known spots and ones that I stumble across. The idea is building a catalog for myself and if.a friend is going to a certain place I can share a GPX. 


I previously did all this on my iPhone using 3 specific apps, Gaia, HikingProject, CalTopo, and sometime AllTrails. Some apps had trails that others didn't and I started to get info across multiple apps. I already had a inReach mini for satellite messaging. After finding out how fantastic the battery life is on the 67i I decided to migrate to a stand alone mapping app and rely less on the phone. 

Anyhow, I played around with Basecamp, loaded a previous GPX and played with points, added waypoints etc...   Ive watched some youtube explaining Tracks and Routes. I am still unclear how to manage the data in app. Do I create Lists or Folders in My Collection?  Right now I have a Folder for each hiking area, for example Bobs Forrest, then within that folder I make a List, example Complete Bobs Loop. On that List I include everything related to that particular hike. Route, Track, and Waypoints. 

I guess where I get confused is, when I go into the Route menu on the 67i every waypoint is in a list. It is really difficult to locate specific things. I was hopping that I could see Folders with specific associated items. 

AND THEN

I started to play with the Explore app and that introduces Courses...  #Mind Blown!   And the touch screen Route...err I mean Course making!  its everything Basecamp should be! what the heck is Garmin doing!  Its almost like you could get a inReach and use the Explore app?  then I would be back to relying on my phone...  :/.  

Anyhow, I kind of lost my thought with this post, so maybe what are your feelings about this? Do you have any suggestions? 

  • First off, IMO, you should just forget that BaseCamp exists. It has it's place, but it's old legacy software.

    First thing to understand about the "newer" software is that courses and routes are the SAME thing. Both are plans for getting you somewhere. They are intended to be "followed" on a device. The only real difference is the file format in which they are stored. Courses are .fit. Routes are .gpx. Since you use non-Garmin software, you will likely want to use routes wherever possible. it's more difficult to find third-party software which understands the Garmin .fit format.

    Tracks are a different animal. Tracks are a record of where you went. On inReach devices, there are two flavors of track. There are tracks made up of "sent points". These are transmitted to the Garmin servers over the Iridium satellite network in more or less real time. These are not very detailed - you have points no closer together than 2 minutes (if your plan permits that). There are also tracks made up of "logged points". These do not leave the device until you "sync". These days, sync is performed by mobile apps like Explore. These "logged tracks" can be much more detailed - for example, one point per second.

    These days, tracks made up of logged points are called "activities". Unfortunately, the native file format for an activity is .fit. Because who would not want a proprietary format over an industry standard? /rant. However, the more capable Garmin iR devices permit you to record activities in both .fit, or .fit and .gpx (but not JUST .gpx). You should turn this option on so you get a .gpx for each recording.

    Be aware that Garmin inexplicably limits both courses and routes (no matter how you build them) to about 200 points. Nobody knows why. Everybody hates the limitation. Even if you import a detailed track and convert it to a course/route, Garmin automatically "thins" it down to 200 points. The result might or might not acceptably follow the original track.

    Since most of the mapping devices allow you to "follow" a track in all its detail, you may want to just skip the whole course/route thing unless you are building them by hand. Just plop the .gpx in the correct folder on the device and you are on your way.

    Especially on something like the 67i (which has a usable virtual keyboard), you don't really NEED the Explore app. It's a nice to have, but not a requirement.

    With regard to organization, collections are the thing to understand. First and foremost, collections are a way of controlling what gets "synchronized", in which direction, and when. You can use collections to organize things geographically (for example, tracks related to a specific park). This requires advance planning. And appropriately controlling the "current collection" into which the device records things.

    This is dated, but has links to other useful articles.

    https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=iDiXkYmOFgAeWRc2qdfXJA&productID=890109&searchQuery=collections&tab=topics

    There is a collection manager on the 66i/67i. But it does not allow you to change the current primary collection. It is aimed at limiting what is visible on the device.

    https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=51Gwu6JJSY3eSCBc9cB9c5&productID=890109&searchQuery=collections&tab=topics

    The whole collections thing is complicated. Lots of subtle nuances. Pay particular attention to the "primary collection". That's where your new data (generated on the device) will end up.

    Since you cannot set the primary collection from the device, you WILL need the Explore app or the web site at explore.garmin.com to set it up before each trip. Note that YOU can move things (really, copy references to things) among collections. You can do this from the Map tab at explore.garmin.com. The process is not at all intuitive, but it is there. You are much better off getting it right initially. 

    The Explore app is slightly better about copying references. But still no prize.

  • In addition to what twolpert writes, there is a slight difference in how Courses and Routes work.

    A Route is just a collection of location points and the GPSMAP will use the active map to calculate a route between each point using the configured routing settings and map details. So the path on the GPSMAP could end up different than what you expect because different maps where used.

    A Course is basically a mix between a Track and a Route: it still contains a collection of location points, but it also contains the path that was originally created to connect these location points. This ensures that the path on your GPSMAP is actually the same as you originally created, independent of the actual map being used on the device. When you deviate from the Course the unit can give you instructions on how to get back to the Course, depending on how exactly you configured your GPSMAP.

    See this Garmin FAQ on an explanation of the different types: What are Tracks, Routes, Waypoints, Activities, and Courses on Garmin Outdoor Handhelds? | Garmin Customer Support

    If you use one of the many third party route plotting web sites (Komoot, Alltrails, Strava, etc) that support synchronising via Garmin Connect, any route you plot on those sites will get synced as a Course on your GPSMAP. For this to work you need to create a connection from the web site to Garmin Connect. For example for AllTrails this is explained here: https://support.alltrails.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019246271. No need to connect your device to a PC and copy GPX files around, as long as you have a phone with the Garmin Connect app and configured your GPSMAP to connect with your phone it will work. I usually create my own routes this way (with Komoot) or get trails from AllTrails. Only downside is that this wireless syncing is usually part of a paid plan of these service, but I personally find Komoot well worth the money.

    I personally do not use Basecamp a lot with the GPSMAP 67. I mainly use it to view the maps I use in a more convenient way (ie on a bigger screen). The Garmin Explore app I mainly use for creating a Course on the fly when needed. But the maps in the Garmin Explore app are not really detailed and often miss many of the trails that are present on the maps I use on the device itself.

  • That is so awesome that I can use a third party app. I might give all trails a try even thought that's what I was trying to eliminate, attest using it "in the field". If I can point click and have a planned route then tweak the lines on explore that saves me a ton of time. 

  • These are awesome answers.  Just one more tidbit to manage your waypoints a little better.  If you are going to hike in a particular area and have 5 or 6 trails that you found on popular sites like Alltrails, download them to Explore into a collection and name the collection (ie: Ohio-Southeast).  You can add any track, route, course, waypoint to that collection.  In explore, you can tell your phone or browser to sync only the items in selected collections.  That way, your history and favorite spots are all saved in Explore but your GPS won't have every waypoint you created on your device.  I loved basecamp but once familiar with Explore, it really is a great platform for the gpsmap devices.

  • Ive been doing collections for each park. Is that ok?

  • You really should qualify your recommendation to forget about Basecamp.  The newer software doesn't work without a connection to the Internet.  You cannot add/share/receive information for your 67i unless you are online.  The 67i is designed exclusively for use when no Internet is available.  Who would even use a 67i if he always had an internet connection?

    For that reason, I don't use the newer software. So what follows may be outdated:

    • I believe the newer software requires that every collection have its own name, i.e. there is no way of creating a hierarchical storage system for navigation information, meaning large amounts of navigation information are unmanageable in the new software. 
    • I think managing the information in a 67i is impossibly tedious with the new software since you have to first create a specific collection of what you want on the device, then go through different steps to get it loaded on the device, then go through other steps to remove the information you don't want. If you connect a 67i to a computer running Basecamp, adding/removing exactly the navigation items you want is a simple as moving files in the operating system.
    • I think the newer software is limited to the 1:100000 maps on the Garmin site.  There's no way to use 1:24000 maps available on chips, meaning the chip slot on the 67i is just for decoration.
    • I don't think there is a way for the new software to edit tracks to remove outlier datapoints.
    • I hope I'm wrong about this (please correct me), but I think there's not even a way to create waypoints from coordinates with the new software. 
  • The Garmin Explore mobile app works just fine when you don’t have internet. You just need to have downloaded the map area you’ll be using. The only limitation I have found is that you cannot search without an internet connection. Creating waypoints and courses on the fly and syncing them to the 67 works fine.

    Managing items on the 67 is limited but that is more due to the way the 67 UI works where everything is just in a list.

    If you want to limit what items are visible, you can use the Collections Manager on the device to enable only the collections you need. No need to sync only the collections you need although that’s an option as well.

    In Garmin Explore app you can enter coordinates to create a way point but you need to have internet.

    I find the web version of Explore quite useless due to the very bad user experience. It looks like it’s put together by people who do not understand user experience (and software development).

    And I do agree with the limitations on the maps in the Garmin Explore mobile app.

    I think Explore is more aimed at hikers etc, it is a device aimed at consumers after all. So if you use it for things like surveying you might run into limitations for your use cases and Basecamp might be the better option.

  • Thanks, JungleJim.  That's good to know about entering waypoints by coordinate.  I agree the Explore app is a good experience.  I use it sometimes when I'm at a station with solar power, but I never take a smartphone when I'm out walking, even on day hikes. For me the beauty of the 66i and 67i is that it's a rugged device that provides all the information services I need in one light package with a battery that will last for several days.

    Even if the collections scheme on the Explore web site were useable offline, it still would not be sufficient for reasons described in my original post.  When Garmin introduced the first all-purpose navigation/communication devices like the 66i, I think there was a disconnect between the device designers and higher ups, who were focused on their bigger market of recreational users.  Those users buy other devices like watches and bike computers for adventures in and out of Internet service.  For those consumers, the 66i or 67i would never be a best choice.  For those outings the 66i and 67i are best for, I think Basecamp is the only practical way to program the devices.

  • I use Basecamp to organize and update waypoints and tracks saved on my 66st, Nuvi and watch. I then create a collection to export (Backup) that data. I will also export the GPX files because I too like to keep backups of my hikes. I tried Explore app but it just messes up too much for me to use it and it's not as easy as Basecamp.