Why didn't tracking work in Expedition Mode today

Does anyone have useful thoughts on why a track my 66i recorded a track today, 24 Jun 2022, with only one point during a period lasting longer than an hour?   

The 66i Recording settings were Record Method Auto, Interval Normal, Auto Pause off, Auto Start off, Activity Type Hiking. The device was recently updated to Software ver. 9.20 and GPS version 2.90.

Before starting the hike, I activated satellite tracking at one-hour intervals, which automatically started recording, put the 66i into Expedition Mode, located it upright in the back of my pack so that only one thin layer of nylon was between it and the rest of the universe.  Then I began hiking at 11:46 local time.  I didn't touch it or take off my pack until I returned to my starting point at 15:23 local, about 3.5 hours later.  At that point I stopped the Iridium tracking, which also stopped the recording.  And I turned off the device.  When I looked at the track on BaseCamp, the 66i had recorded the track at My GPX File (a link that will expire after 8/31/22).

Compared to past tracks (not in Expedition Mode), the track's planar record is reasonably accurate until 13:36.  As expected from Garmin documentation, the Expedition Mode track was less accurate than the non-Expedition Mode tracks on the same trail, but track recorded today in Expedition Mode was still fairly accurate up until the point where it wasn't.  At 13:36, it essentially stopped recording.  It resumed recording at 14:40 and continued recording a reasonably well until I finished.  Between 13:36 and 14:40, it recorded one track point at 13:47.  That point was an a fairly accurate planar position. 

There were no events or local conditions that would account for hour-long lapse in recording.  In fact, the first part of the hike where the device was recording an appropriate track was at the bottom of a narrow canyon with almost vertical walls.  So if it were to fail to record an accurate track, you would expect it to fail there.  Moreover, the point at which the failure begins is seconds after the highest point of the hike where the view of the sky was best.

My 66i has never recorded a remotely accurate spatial track when in Expedition Mode, although it records plausible spatial tracks when not in Expedition.  I've tested one other 66i that was also unable to record a reasonable spatial track in Expedition Mode.  After every few updates I recheck again to make sure this undocumented defect still exists.  I've asked Garmin more than once in past years to either document or fix this defect in Expedition Mode.  As you can see from the elevations in this track, the spatial track is absurdly inaccurate, as usual.  Today, the Altimeter was set to Auto Calibration Once. 

I anticipate someone will be tempted to post a reply saying he never uses Expedition Mode and I can solve the problem by not using Expedition Mode.  However, Expedition Mode is a tremendous feature for applications like one I'll need in a few weeks.  Today, the battery level went from 99 percent at the start of the hike to 98 percent 3.5 hours later, during which time it was sending up track points to the satellite. Several times, I've gone more than a week on one full charge with the 66i in Expedition mode sending hourly updates through most of the daylight hours and sending and receiving dozens of messages.  So it's a great feature.  If only it would work as advertised.

I also sent an InReach message before starting today's hike and another when I finished.  I received an InReach message while I was hiking, though I didn't see it until much later.  As I said the 66i remained untouched during the hike.  It may not be unrelated but the received message I referred to was sent from a smartphone at 13:03 and was "received" (I think that means by the 66i) at 13:51, which was 13 minutes after the failure started.  So the 66i may have been trying to receive the message when the failure began at 13:37.

In case it is relevant, there is a loose correlation between the track points sent to the Iridium network and the failure points in the recorded track.  The first track point after the initial track point at the trailhead was recorded at 12:46 at a position where it might have been difficult for it to transmit to an Iridium satellite.  As I said, the first failure in the recorded track began 10 minutes later at 13:37.  Then the single point that was recorded in the track during the hour+ lapse in recording was recorded at 13:47, which within a minute of when the next track point for the Iridium network was recorded.  As I said before, the device began recording the track again at 14:40.  The next track point sent to Iridium was recorded six minutes later at 12:46.

  • This is difficult to follow without a picture.

    If, by spatial track, you mean GPS-derived altitude, it's never very good. The error in derived altitude is 2x to 3x the error in horizontal position. I rather suspect that this is worse in expedition mode. Suspect that the unit does not leave the GPS radio on long enough to get a high-quality fix.

    Message checks are also affected by expedition mode. IIRC, the hourly automatic checks are suppressed entirely. If you are sending points, inbound messages are still implicitly received each time a point is sent. However, in expedition mode, you will not be notified that you have received a message. That never made any sense to me, the that's the way I understand it.

    Complete lack of recorded "activity" points does feel like a bug. I can't remember if there is an "auto-interval" more detailed than normal. If so, you might try that. Either way, auto always puts you at the mercy of the device's internal logic for what constitutes a "necessary" point. OTOH, I don't know how a fixed interval - especially a short one - would interact with expedition mode.

  • Thanks, twopert. 

    I don't know of a way to insert the picture you suggested.  I don't believe this website accepts either tab-delimited tables or large .jpg files. 

    If you look at the track table at the link in my post, you'll see your "not very good" description understates this issue which I believe applies to all 66i's all the time when in Expedition Mode.  The spatial tracks are absurd, i.e., wildly impossible. As I said, I've reported this limitation to Garmin at least a couple of times in the past.

    Your assumption about message checks comes from my failure to explain that I normally do not have a cell phone when using the 66i. I mentioned my delayed notice of the incoming message only to emphasize that the device was not touched during the entire 3.5-hour period.  

    As you say, the auto interval setting would not account for a lapse of nearly an hour when more than a mile was traveled.

    At the moment I have only one 66i.  So deciding between a software bug and a device component failure is not possible.  It would be helpful if others could check this using the same settings in my post.  Unfortunately, that's not easy.  It may need to be done by someone on long hike or bike ride since the failure is intermittent and often goes for hours/miles without a lapse.

    By the way, I've also submitted this question to Garmin support but haven't heard back yet.  If I get an informative answer, I'll post it here.

  • Any hardware failure would have to be (very) intermittent to result in these symptoms. Also, you pretty much eliminate a hardware failure if it works fine NOT in expedition mode. I really would try a fixed time interval instead of auto. If expedition mode allows that.

    With regard to Garmin support, you are probably better of with phone or chat if you have that option. Based on other forum posts, email is something of a black hole.

  • I have here 3 66i units. In normal mode all work as expected.

    When set to expedition mode, one of them is crashing much more frequently then the other 2 and does lot of strange things. Ticket open for many months now, I have sent log files from the units, made lot of screenshots, made videos of the screen and so on. Still no real advise from support.

  • Very interesting, skyeye.  Please describe the differences in expedition mode. 

    I have just received a second 66i to test and plan to test expedition mode functions over the next few days.  If I learn anything useful, I'll post it here.

    The two issues I've noticed in expedition mode on a 66i that works as expected when not in expedition mode both show up on recorded tracks. 

    One issue is absurd elevation changes.  This is no big problem because where a planar track exists, elevation is available from topographic charts.  This issue is on virtually every recorded track.   I believe it is true on other 66i's I've used.  The tracks show superhuman abrupt changes in elevation, and hugely inflated ascent/decent records on the Trip Computer.

    The other issue is more problematic.  In expedition mode, the 66i will fail to record any track points for periods much greater than is documented.  (Anticipating the reader's reaction, please know that I understand completely that track recordings in expedition mode are expected to be less frequent.) The issue I see after a hike of several hours, is a recorded track showing track points usually about every minute or so, rarely more than three minutes, then for no obvious reason, no track points are recorded for a much longer period, up to an hour or two during which I covered miles.  Then it will resume recording regular track points.  This does not occur on every hike but occurs often enough that the device cannot be trusted to record a track in expedition mode.

  • one thing is important: expedition mode is meant to save power.

    Therefore all possible things are done to switch functions off or switch them on-off dynamically. The logic behind it is probably very complex, unit can not be expected to work the same as in normal mode. So even logging of positions will need to be reduced with some kind of algorithm. So probably the 66i thinks it is not moving so fast and possibly in more less straight line, then  it will switch to less frequent logging. This I would not call a malfunction, as it tries not to use the gps receiver so much to save power.

    What I experienced (with the latest firmware) are crashes either followed by a reboot or staying in some kind of dead state. 

  • Thanks, Skyeye, for that description of the expedition mode problem on one of your three 66i's.  I laughed reading your predictable description of the documented reduced frequency of tracking in expedition mode.  EVERYONE says the same thing when I report this issue.  Please believe me that I am aware of the documented reduced frequency and always have been aware of it. The documentation even has a nice visualization of the effect of that delay.  And I've seen that effect many many times in my own tracks when compared to the same track when not in expedition mode.  And as you say, the documentation implies that it is controlled by an inertial movement sensor in the 66i.  The issue I see is definitely not that documented change in tracking frequency.

  • can not understand what should be wrong. It simply stops recording when it feels it is not essential.

    The expedition mode was and still is something unstable, we all remember the disaster in FW8.80.

    But its main purpose is to save power. I have also longer jumps in exp mode, but as I use either 10min or 20min tracking, it is not really that clearly visible. When I switch on exp mode, I am telling the device that I am not interested in details, but need to save power. The unit will then behave accordingly.

    When in normal mode, and recording set to auto, there can be lot of log points at some time and only few in other time.

    I do not see where there should be any malfunction.

  • To skyeye, et. al. 

    I suspect there was a defect in the 66i that I was using in so far as the lapses in track recording was concerned. 

    I tested that device side by side with a refurbished device kindly provided by Garmin for the comparison.  Both were in expedition mode from start to finish on a 3.5-hour, 7-mile hike in vertical terrain mostly under a canopy.  Both devices were also sending up hourly track points to the Iridium network.  The replacement device recorded planar track points as expected and as documented on the 3.5-hour 7-mile hike.  In other words, the recorded track points were slightly less frequent than when not in expedition mode but the track points that were recorded were comparable in accuracy to tracks recorded in non-expedition mode.  My existing device did not record any points during a 40-minute period over 1.2 miles of the hike.  This was typical of my existing device. 

    The fact that the replacement device showed no lapse in recording makes me think my existing device (using the same firmware and gps versions) has s defect in the sensors that control tracking in expedition mode.

    There is some confusion in this thread about a couple of points.  One is the distinction between recorded tracks and the tracks sent to the Iridium network.  The issue in this thread involves recorded tracks.  Their frequency should have nothing to do with the setting for the frequency of tracks sent to the Iridium network.  Nor are the controlled by the recorded track settings.  According to the documentation, when the 66i is in expedition mode the track recording frequency options are overridden.  Again, I am not saying anything here about the frequency of track points sent to the Iridium network.  The likely defect in my existing device does not affect track points sent to the Iridium network.

    The other point that some are confused about is my report about the inability to track elevation in expedition mode.  It's natural for people to assume I'm unfamiliar with the documentation and that the errors I am reporting are ones described in the documentation.  That assumption is wrong in this case.  The elevation errors in the recorded tracks in expedition mode that I referred to here are wildly inaccurate.  And I do not think they are related to the likely defect in my existing device.  From my experience all 66i's will fail to track elevation correctly most of the time.  This is undocumented as far as I know.  The elevation tracking errors are insanely wrong at many points on every track that I have recorded in expedition mode and on every 66i I have used.  Again, I am not talking about the track points sent to the Iridium network.  The replacement device, I used today for the comparison recorded the absurd elevations that I am accustomed to.

    Having said all that, I think expedition mode is a valuable feature when used in a device that is not defective.  The track recorded today by the replacement device from Garmin was very accurate insofar as the planar location is concerned even though the recorded track was slightly lower resolution than tracks recorded in non-expedition mode.  And the energy economy is phenomenal.  By my very rough calculation, the 66i uses only about 100 joules/hour when in expedition mode and recorded an internal track and sending hourly track points to the Iridium network.  100 joules is less than 0.5 percent of the battery capacity.  And my experience is typically in vertical terrain under heavy tree canopy.  Using the device in expedition mode sending hourly track points to the satellites for eight hours per day, the device should go at least a few weeks on a single charge, possibly as long a month.  And an eight-ounce external battery can completely recharge the 33.5 kilojoule battery in the 66i.