Satellite display on 66i

What to the red-circled length measurements represent in the 66i (ver 9.20) screenshot below?  One of the length measurements must be the calculated horizontal accuracy.  Which one?  And what is the other one?  

  • You can call the top one calculated horizontal accuracy if you like. As usual, the number is tied to a probability. "Your true position is within x feet of the reported position with probability p."  And Garmin isn't going to tell you what probability they use. Smaller is better. You can't compare them across different models, even from the same vendor. Certainly not cross-vendor.

    I believe the bottom one is elevation.

  • Discussed in another forum in relation to 66sr and one participant obtained this response from Garmin support:

    "In regards to your enquiry:
    We typically quote the 2-sigma (95th percentile) accuracy value.
    So when we say your accuracy is 3.65m, we are saying that 95 percent of the time, you would be within 3.65m of the true location."

    Legacy devices traditionally applied CEP 50%.

  • Interpreting that quote calls for someone with a background in statistics and geometry.  If someone reading this has that kind of education, please chime in.  I would like to know more about what the accuracy number means.  Putting aside spatial position, I assume (though without much knowledge of GPS geometry) that a standard deviation in the measurements must vary a lot depending on the axis of the variance.  In other words, I see no reason to believe that a standard deviation of 10 feet along say the northeast-southwest axis would be the same along the northwest-southeast axis.  Interpreted literally, the 3.65m in the quote would mean the maximum of all axes?  But the fact that the quote doesn't address the issue makes me suspicious that it's strident.

  • It means exactly what it says, 95% percent of the time you will be within that distance.

    Don't get hung up on the calculations for a consumer device, the ellipse is taken care of for you within that summary horizontal distance. The concepts have been standard for decades, there are many methods, 95% is very common and in disciplines such as precise mapping, surveying and scientific observations the ellipse is important so it's normal for it to be broken out and reported.

    As an example here's an extract from an observation report on a temporary base station I set up here last night, in this you can see the position is a little more rubbery in the N/S direction. Or you could simply go with the horizontal number which takes care of the ellipse and as a result calculates slightly larger similar to what the Garmin is reporting for you:

    For a consumer device the ellipse becomes academic, the position isn't corrected so there's no point (unless you are post processing the rinex) and the uncertainty is significant.  Just think of it as technology advances and improved positioning have allowed Garmin to report positions to the same standard, apples to apples but just as the simple horizontal number. 

    To avoid everyone here going in over our heads on the 95% calculations, just Google it. There's heaps of information out there. Or at your peril you can get a taste from the document linked in the report above that references our local standards here:  www.icsm.gov.au/.../Guideline-for-Adjustment-and-Evaluation-of-Survey-Control_v2.2.pdf

  • First time I've ever seen the number quoted. I would have expected 90% to 95%. Not sure what that equates to as CEP.

  • There's a few industry standard methods, a couple quick comparison summaries I just looked up that explain the differences: 

    https://junipersys.com/support/article/6614

    gssc.esa.int/.../Accuracy

  • the term 'accuracy' is in fact incorrect, as this should be used only when comparing a measurement to exactly known and defined value.

    As a GPS receiver alone can not know such defined vale, we can not speak about accuracy.

    We might rather use the term precision, which compares number unknown values, as position calculated by the GPS receiver with other unknown values, again positions calculated by the GPS receiver just statistically. This means the result will give you approximate calculation of probability how close will be the next measurement to the previous measurement(s), not any kind of map position!

    However since the term accuracy, thought misleading, find its way into consumer world, meaning all the smartphones etc, it is used incorrectly here as well.

    Note that GPS receiver is not able to tell you how far his calculations are from any kind of 'true' position, even if people still keep dreaming about this.

  • Using that argument Precision wouldn't be correct either unless you physically plotted each and all the points on the ground so they were also known and then did the measurements and calculations from them. 

    In this case the accuracy being referred to is not literally accuracy, but probability of accuracy, 95%

    Non corrected devices may not have a true ground reference but they have been extensively tested under various signal conditions and carry a reference model that tells them under the current operating parameters what the performance is.

    For a consumer device with meters to spare in any direction I wouldn't be splitting hairs and loosing sleep over it.

  • do not what argue too much, but precission is the correct terme, as the results of individual measurements are collected and from this the potential dilution of position can be permanently calculated and updated. So measurements are compared to previous measurements. So yes, the device physically plots the data over certain time to be able to use precision term.

    And as this time is not infinite, it says: if you make a measurement and calculation within next defined time, your result will be probably 6m of the currently calculated position.

    In smartphone field, to make the picture more pleasant to the consumer user, 4 calculations are made, from them an average calculated and this will be then passed to temporary data base as entry for calculation of the potential dilution of position etc. (thats why such system may not be used for any serious navigation)

    Accuracy term can not be used with any simple GPS not ground reference based.

    As it is not know to what the measured value can be compared with. GPS receiver does not know where it is, so it can not carry out measurements leading to accuracy.

    We can start talk about accuracy with ground based differential GPS possibly, when we clearly define what is the point we are referring to.