Calories burn with and without heart rate monitor

I'm going out for a run in a few minutes. It'll take a little doing, and we'll need to account for a gradual rise in heart rate over the course of a 7+-mile run, but I could take a few 2-mile splits on each of the VivoSmart & the 910xt and see how they pan out.

Turning off my heart rate monitor while running is something I rarely ever do; I train by it strictly, because it's the best way I've found so far to improve my otherwise fairly horrible fitness. Just for you, @FLYoung :-)

Turning off my heart rate monitor while running is something I rarely ever do

I appreciate the thought txg but that might not work out like you think:

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Those Garmin HRM's tend to keep phoning home long after they should quit trying.

Exactly the same problem I just had on a six-miler. It went from providing a result to providing wildly inaccurate, intermittent results despite being detached. So much for my attempt at "science".

Next time I'm using the Mio Link instead (it has an actual on/off button). My only complaint about the Mio on my runs is that the estimated HRV sometimes seems to cause me to have a higher Training Effect than I otherwise would, causing me to go easier the next time when I should be going harder. But that's an issue specific to the 910xt on my interval workouts, not the VivoSmart.

Regardless, I don't regret it. I ran my fastest mile ever after already running five miles (12:01, yay me!) on the very last lap, consistently performed "reverse splits" faster each mile, and my heart rate got LOWER at the same pace with each passing mile instead of higher. Which told me maybe I was a little stressed out or something when I started, and running six miles mellowed me out. 100% worth it to just get out and run despite the bad science :-)

So much for my attempt at "science".

Ha! Got you off the couch. Congratulation on your new PR and your reverse splits. I'm still working on simple pace but was nailing 9:00 on my four short runs today.

My only complaint about the Mio on my runs is that the estimated HRV sometimes seems to cause me to have a higher Training Effect than I otherwise would

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/01/mio-link-first-look.html#. I think my Scosche Rhythm + has the same HRV issues which is why I did not use it this weekend (to give the fenix 2 the best data possible).

I Rest My Case

Absent contrary data from at least one other person, I am sticking with my original contention that Garmin has some screwed up code or underlying logic in the area of reporting calories when paired with a heart rate monitor.

The latest evidence:

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These were four runs all performed by me today over the same known two mile course while attempting to maintain a 9:00 pace. For the two runs highlighted in yellow, I paired both the Vivosmart and my fenix 2 with my ultra-reliable and HRV capable Garmin HRM1B. The two un-highlighted runs were performed with no HRM paired with either Garmin device.

Running with an HRM resulted in VS calorie expenditure values that were less than 65% of the fenix HRV values and less than half of the values provided by either of two HR based online calculators. If it is cheating you while you are running you have to believe it is cheating you just as bad or worse when you are engaging in other forms of exercise. I would like to see their math. If it is proprietary, they should pay their competitors to take it off their hands.

It is not the HRM. The fenix was using the same one and the numbers are perfectly reasonable. I do not think it is the band. It is counting steps, computing distances, keeping time, passing along notifications and counting calories . . . just not enough of them . . . especially when I help it out by wearing a HRM.

This gets more confusing the more I read. It's like you're looking for a way to get bad data. You take off the HRM band in the middle of an activity, and then post the graph to show when you took it off?

Well, the activity started expecting HRM data, and then you stuff the HRM in your pocket after 15 minutes... What ARE you testing here? Have you considered throwing your HRM band into a BBQ fire after 20 minutes? :o

I have done over 200 "activities" (walking about 2 miles, at <4MPH, no HRM), and NEVER seen 700+ cals for that. That just tells me there is something wrong with the way you test, as you got 700+ for that same 2 miles in one of your tests.

This gets more confusing the more I read.

The hypothesis is that the VivoSmart Fitness Activity when using a HRM is flawed and seriously underestimates calorie expenditure.

I'm a barely-no-longer-obese slow runner, I'm going to do a few experiments of my own with & without the HRM to attempt to invalidate the hypothesis!

EDIT: The point of taking the chest strap off is to show that just taking the strap off doesn't prevent it from sending HRM data regardless, which was the same finding I made this morning when attempting to see if I could reproduce @FLYoung's results.

Stuffing the HRM in a pocket (or turning it off) in the middle of an activity? And you EXPECT valid data?

Hi Jim. My bad for mixing up data from different experiments in the same thread. I was just trying to warn txg that what he as about to try to do was probably not going to work as I discovered doing experiments related to the sensor shag problem. As you astutely observed:

When you take the HRM off in the middle of a run, it's still sending data, but BOGUS data!

I assure you that, at no time during my last ten experiments related to the HRM calorie deficit phenomenon did I change the state of any HRM in the middle of an activity. In fact, I was careful to separate the experiments with a reasonable period of time and not begin unless all or no devices were getting (or not getting) any kind of HRM signal.

I just sent you a friend request. I really do want to be friends. A side benefit is that I believe that will enable you to look at all of my activities in as much detail as you wish and eliminate sources of misunderstanding.

The whole "take off the HRM after 15 minutes" is as if you ran the "wrapped the watch in tin foil so it could no longer get GPS data" test.....

I'm sorry, but your methods don't make sense to me...