Garmin Blocking Access to My Data

Look, I agree that Garmin is being stupid in changing their API and charging for access. But the weekends glitches, which I noticed in ConnectStats and saw the announcement that RubiTrack was having problems, were apparently just that, glitches. ConnectStats is working and RubiTrack put out an upgrade. I think the saying goes, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." The problem that the OP was having was described as occurring right after switching from ANT+ Agent to Express, and has nothing to do with Garmin locking up data, but everything to do with their abandonment of Communicator Plugin, which sites like Strava, RunKeeper, and apparently SportTracks are still using (and which worked for me today, so it still works).

The fact remains, Garmin isn't locking up anyone's data, not yet, anyway. But Apple? Apple is notorious for walled gardens (App Store, anyone?), although it's also done some fine work in freeing data. No more music DRM is all Apple's doing, although they haven't managed to do the same for video from the iTunes store. iBooks, however, is an awful walled garden, which, until recently, could only be accessed from iOS devices (not even Mac's could do it). I wouldn't necessarily assume that the data collected from an iWatch (if there ever is one) or iOS devices will easily be available to third parties. And Google, of course, is going to try to mine the data they collect to try and make money. That, after all, is their business model, and why a lot of people stay away from them.

Seriously, do you think that if all the major players pair up and the data sloshes around without effort between Strava, GC, RunKeeper, Withings, etc., that anyone will care that small developers are walled out?

All the non-hardware fitness companies are mining data, it's how they make money. Strava's just getting started there.

As for malice vs incompetence, I think the first time I'd chalk it up to incompetence/whatever. But at this point I'm putting this time into the 'on purpose' category.

"Seriously, do you think that if all the major players pair up and the data sloshes around without effort between Strava, GC, RunKeeper, Withings, etc., that anyone will care that small developers are walled out?"

Clearly people do care, otherwise posts like this wouldn't exist. Further, small developers become big developers. Small idea become big ideas, and eventually become cool things that we enjoy using. After all, Strava didn't just become a massive multimillion dollar thing overnight. Rather, it started off with two college friends coding to fix a problem they had. And while Garmin somehow views those small companies as a competitor, the more they push they're simply going to push people away.

Again, if Garmin wants to put up those walls, that's fine - but I still think it's a mistake. After all, for a medium sized fitness company like Sport Tracks where the users tend to be very loyal - why do you want to make it difficult for them to use Garmin devices? Nobody else charges for their API in the sports industry...nobody.

Well, I don't see any walls. Import is still there, Export is still there. But that's just Garmin Connect, and if Garmin wants to ruin that (and they're doing a great job doing that with Modern), who cares? There are many alternatives. I've been using GC since 2008 when it was MotionBased, but if I had to dump it today, so be it. I have my tracks stored elsewhere as well as at GC.

To SportTracks specifically, I don't want to sign up for yet another site, but I see that they have OS X software, and presumably they have manual uploads of the usual formats. So they're good to go. So why is it difficult for someone to use SportTracks with a Garmin device? What SportTracks should be doing is nudging their users away from using Communicator Plugin, either by writing a replacement or by at least broadcasting where people using ANT+ syncing devices can find their local copies of tracks, so they can manually upload. Stupid of Garmin to write ANT+ Agent and Express that way, but they're probably not going to change that. The tracks should be stored somewhere very visible instead of hidden deep where (Apple, at least) doesn't want you to look and makes it hard to look. I noticed that Strava gives nudges to use manual uploads instead of the Plugin, so they're heading in the right direction.

Yes, Garmin should open and document their API, and not charge for it. I'm a big user of Open Source, and I've worked in a minor way on some Open Source projects. (I'm not a Stallman type ideologue though, obviously, since I'm writing this on a Mac running Mavericks using Safari.) I know that innovative ideas come from small developers. Garmin is being stupid. But most people won't care. If there's one big walled garden that everyone can play in, then people will be happy. If data flows to Strava from GC, or to other sites without effort, these kinds of complaints will disappear. If a few walled gardens appear, though, then the situation won't be as good, and it'll be time to break out the pickaxes and explosives to blow some holes in the walls.

You have the breath and depth of experience with these devices that no one else has. I've used only a few Garmin devices (60CSx, Fenix, VIRB Elite, 705, 800), and a couple of Polar HRM's that didn't record data. I don't compete, and I don't train, I just ride and ski, so my usage of these devices is different from yours. So I ask, who better than Garmin? Does anyone else make devices that make it as easy to get the tracks, that use documented formats to store data, the way Garmin does? There are plenty of reasons to yell at Garmin, and I've suffered through many of them, but I don't get the impression from reading your reviews that anyone makes it as easy, and you said as much about Suunto above.

Also getting the 403 error on importing to Sport Tracks, am due to upgrade my forerunner 310xt, will not be a garmin now.

If you're getting a 403 error from Sports Tracks that's a problem with their website, not Garmin.

You can read about 403 errors here http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/403error.htm

I take it you don't use SportTracks yourself, Sussamb? The original version is a PC program which uses a database stored directly on your computer (these days you can sync that with a web version). The PC program is giving a 403 error when the user runs the Garmin Connect plugin which in turn issues http requests to the Connect API. It is definitely coming from Garmin. SportTracks only talks to the sporttracks.mobi site to sync at startup and shutdown; running that plugin imports activities into the local logbook.

Garmin are not blocking anyone's access to any of the data actually on the watch, which is more than can be said for, say, Leikr for just one example; the only way to get data off that watch is to sync it to Strava or Endomondo. Download your activity from either of those sites, and you won't find your original lap markers, so you can't do any useful analysis of an interval session (if anybody knows a way round this, I'd be happy to be proved wrong). But that is just poor design decisions on their part; Garmin have made an active decision to block anyone not willing to pay a cost that, for ST, would require 85 new subscribers to cover.

ST are in the middle of a transition that started with donationware, went through a very cheap paid version, and is now heading into a significantly more expensive subscription model. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with this situation.

ST can upload files on USB devices or on the filesystem; it supports multiple ways of getting your data in. You can upload individual FIT, GPX and TCX files, and a lot of other formats too. There's a plugin (about $5 extra cost) which reads FIT files from any USB Garmin that's plugged in, and will list all the new files in much the same way that the CP does, but it doesn't use CP to do it. It'll also pull files directly off an ANT+ device. Your $5 also buys better support of some details of the FIT file, like the recovery heart rate (I'm not plugging it, I'm just a satisfied user).

ST didn't even support pulling files from Connect until February of this year, to support 220/620 users who wanted to get their data in without going through a computer.

As I said before, I don't think Garmin are locking up data; you can get hold of it, the formats are easily available at no charge, and up to now their track record has been very good. The problem isn't that you can't get the data in (and I do rather share your view that it's worth the effort, which is in any case no more effort than I've been going to for years). The problem is that they're blocking out medium-sized players with good products from an important part of the ecosystem, and for that matter blocking out new startups with good ideas.

ST can upload files on USB devices or on the filesystem; it supports multiple ways of getting your data in. You can upload individual FIT, GPX and TCX files, and a lot of other formats too. There's a plugin (about $5 extra cost) which reads FIT files from any USB Garmin that's plugged in, and will list all the new files in much the same way that the CP does, but it doesn't use CP to do it. It'll also pull files directly off an ANT+ device. Your $5 also buys better support of some details of the FIT file, like the recovery heart rate (I'm not plugging it, I'm just a satisfied user).

Sounds like they've covered their bases, then, and they're not letting Garmin control their business. That's admirable.

ST didn't even support pulling files from Connect until February of this year, to support 220/620 users who wanted to get their data in without going through a computer.

As I said before, I don't think Garmin are locking up data; you can get hold of it, the formats are easily available at no charge, and up to now their track record has been very good. The problem isn't that you can't get the data in (and I do rather share your view that it's worth the effort, which is in any case no more effort than I've been going to for years). The problem is that they're blocking out medium-sized players with good products from an important part of the ecosystem, and for that matter blocking out new startups with good ideas.

I think "blocking out" is still to harsh. They're making it harder. So now if you're a startup with a good idea, rather than milking Garmin Connect, you have to understand how these devices work and make a path from the device to your database. Doesn't sound that hard to do, especially if you have a really good idea that people will be willing to work a little to use. Garmin is being stupid, but we already knew that. Actually, if you're really good with HTTP/HTML, you can probably still get the data (Export is still there) if you know your user's credentials. Garmin may be trying to set up a country club with membership cards, but they don't prevent you from giving the card to an avatar, and I don't see how they could without blocking you out as well.

Not sure that I agree. For one thing, the problem is that it's a country club with a $5,000 membership fee. For another, if you're writing a smartphone app, there's no way to get the data without using the API or writing an extra program, probably a cross-platform one for PC and Mac at least. Paying out $5,000 for the API, assuming they don't reject your proposal in the first place, is probably the cheaper way to do it.
Exporting isn't really satisfactory either; the API is the only way to get the original FIT file, and you need that for things like running dynamics, Tempe temperature readings, heart rate recovery data, and whatever else they've put in since they settled the TCX standard.