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GPS Technology 2010

My first Garmin GPS was over 12 years ago; it was a 12xl. Since that time I have owned 9 Garmin units: 12xl, 12map, GPSIII+, eMap (x2), GPSV, 60CSX, Street Pilot C330 (x2). If you notice, I have not upgraded to any new current Garmin model. I currently own and use the 60csx & C330. With all of this said, I have a history with this company. I have had other brands of GPS’s over the years but always come back to Garmin; it’s the only GPS I have ever recommended.

My job & volunteer work pretty much requires me to have a GPS. I am a licensed Paramedic & Firefighter, work commercial ambulance as well as volunteer on a local FD, Red Cross, Regional Medical Reserve Corps, State Disaster Response Team, and Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Team. I am also in the process of joining the Civil Air Patrol. I have been deployed to 911, Ivan, Indonesia, Katrina, and most recently Haiti. It’s safe to say I have put your GPS units through the gauntlet. They are built well, but the level of technology is still not on par with the times.

I remember my first conversation with a Garmin tech back in the late 90’s; we spent over an hour on the phone talking about how the new 12 point receiver was revolutionary. We went over chipsets, power consumption, accuracy and signal strength in technical terms; it was a great conversation. I have had several of these over the years with Garmin techs, the last of which was over the amazing SIRFStarIII in the 60CSX. I have had subsequent conversations with your techs, but the quality of the conversation seemed parallel to the quality of your new products. Total crap.

Here is a summary of a recent conversation with your tech support. I called to find out if my 60CSX had a 65nm or 90nm SIRFIII. This is kind of a specific slightly out of the ordinary technical question, but not one that was so difficult that techs in the past could not answer or at least look up. The rep pretty much blew me off saying that he did not know what I was talking about and wanted to know why I was asking. I said I found it funny that Garmin no longer listed chipsets under product specs (they used to but now all it says is “a highly sensitive chipset”) and the lack of that information just goes to show the company knows they are putting cheap crap chips in newer GPS in order to increase profits (cheap chips cost less). The rep told me he has never heard of any problems with the new chips and then asked if there was anything else he could help me with, signifying he was done talking with me. I hung up and called back, talking to another rep who said she was not sure about chipsets but could ask HER tech support (funny tech support at Garmin now has its OWN tech support, LOL!!!). I gave up at that point but thanked her for her time; at least she offered to do more than the first rep.

My reason was that I just found out the 60 models have changed over to a different chipset and wanted to get a backup 60CSX SURFStarIII before they all vanished. All the reviews posted on the 65nm SIRFStarIII chipset show it provides much better performance than the SIRFStarIII 90nm. Even taking that into account, the SIRFStarIII 90nm still does circles around just about every other chipset that Garmin in now using (STMicro Teseo/Cartesio). The only other chipset Garmin uses that can come close to the performance of the SIRFStarIII is the MTKII (The original MTK was crap) but it’s -165 dBm sensitivity still falls behind the -159dBm of the SIRFStarIII. These numbers may mean nothing to the average consumer, but when you are crawling under rubble and in collapsed tunnels, the quality of your GPS’s receiver chip means EVERYTHING. My 60CSX can lock on to satellites in a basement that is 12FT underground, with 2 stories of house above; that’s a good GPS!

After all the problems with the Colorado and this new Garmin made “in-house” chipset, I decided not to upgrade. To date, there is nothing new worth getting in the handheld department, which is seriously disappointing. Also the recent marketing nonsense is only rivaled by Apple and its crap marketing theory. You really think a 3mp camera is worth an extra $100? My cell phone has an 8mp camera, a 1ghz processor, 512ram, and 8gb of storage. New, out of contract it costs about $480, which is still less than your Oregon 550 which in comparison technology wise is substandard even though you claim it’s your flagship handheld. Its freekin 2010 and you are still using USB 1.1 in some of your new GPS’s, which is something that should be criminal. Where the *** are you finding this archaic technology, caves in Afghanistan? Scratch that, a good friend of mine in the Army SF’s has been in caves in Afghanistan and described the tech there, its old but not that old. You realize USB 2.0 specification was released in April 2000? That was 10 years ago. Christ, get with the times.

I bought Topo 2008 a few years back and was annoyed as *** at the fact you choose to make the map sections so small, thus crippling people from loading its entirety on your very limited 2025 map segment limit. Ironically the DVD was only half full, meaning you have no excuse for not putting two different mapsets on there, one with small segments for older units with less memory and one for modern units with large SD cards. I see you have had no problem with this in your new “t” models which seem to have the entre US Topo installed. Let me guess you rebuilt the maps with smaller segments just for those units? How about releasing an update for your paying customers? Ya, I won’t hold my breath.

For the purpose of this post I compared the specs of your old GPS12 and the new Oregon 400 and got a good laugh out of the fact that the 12CS (1998) can hold the same number of waypoints. The 60CSX can hold the same number of Tracks as the 12 units released in 1998; at least you raised that number with the newer models but it’s still ironic the 60CSX was made 7 years later then the 12 models but has similar specs. My point is you are pulling the same crap Apple does which is upgrade your technology extremely slowly with one or two new features every new model. This trend is getting worse too, which is why I decided to write this post now instead of years ago.

Where your technology SHOULD be in 2010: First, stop using these garbage cheap chipsets in your flagship models. Your customers pay for quality; stop screwing us and trying to sneakily hide it by removing specs from your website. Cell phones have had HD screens now for years and touch screen ones to boot. I would expect more from your screens by now. Your processors, memory and storage are all 5+ years behind the times and need upgrading. If you actually upgraded your tech we might be able to load a good amount of map segments onto our units. Using USB 1.1 is a joke and its insulting to your customers you think USB 2.0 is a “premium option”. If you are going to charge an extra $100 for a camera, how about putting one worth paying extra for like an 8mp model. These cameras will never be better than the most basic point and shoot models (never mind a DSLR) but at least it’s better than 3mp.

You have had GPS’s with barometric pressure sensors for years now yet you still refuse to add Storm Watch to your software. One example is Brunton makes the ACD pro weather sensor which uses barometric pressure to predict storms. This is not some new technology; people have been doing this for hundreds of years, just not electronically. I am sure your hikers would like to know the pressure is dropping, thus a storm is coming. You added a crappy camera but still no temperature gauge? Come on, please start thinking about your users needs. IPX7 is not bad, but it would be nice to see IPX8. Olympus, Canon, Pentex, etc all have low cost point and shoot cameras with IPX8 10m+. Most are freeze, crush, and drop proof too. A 3-Axis compass should be standard. Also, it’s time to expand your graphical interface beyond the cartoonish ones you are using now to something more professional. Allowing customers to upload skins would be nice but it’s still no substitute of a good default interface. Custom maps and aerial imagery are a must.

If you notice I have left out things like wifi, internet browsers, loading apps, etc. The more of this stuff that’s added the more buggy and bogged down electronics seems to get. I do not expect my GPS to act like a cell phone or computer but there is no excuse for a slow processor, limited track/waypoint/route saves, limited map segments, etc. All of these limits can be fixed if you upgrade your tech, which is something that has not been done in years. You can dress up these new units any way you like but the limitations are not far off from your GPS units 12 years ago. If you expect people to drop $600 for a new GPS, it would be nice if it actually included some new technology and not the cheapest chipset your finance department can get a hold of either.

/rant
Flame away fanboys, flame away.
  • /rant
    Flame away fanboys, flame away.


     None from this quarter.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 15 years ago
    That's longer than an Amazon book preview....
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 15 years ago
    I came here wondering if any new units have been released since the 60CSX, hoping that some might have been at least announced that have some of the features mentioned above.

    Sounds like I should stick with the 60CSX then, eh?
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 15 years ago
    Everybody has the right to buy what suits them best. If a tool won't cut it, go on and find something better. Complaining about it won't solve the problem. And no, I'm not criticizing the original poster.
  • I came here wondering if any new units have been released since the 60CSX, hoping that some might have been at least announced that have some of the features mentioned above.

    Sounds like I should stick with the 60CSX then, eh?


    That’s my plan for now. ; )


    Everybody has the right to buy what suits them best. If a tool won't cut it, go on and find something better. Complaining about it won't solve the problem. And no, I'm not criticizing the original poster.


    But making these problems publically known will. Do you really think its coincidence the wording on the website is what it is? Were in the age of usb 3.0, why make a new device in 2010 and sell it with USB 1.1 from 1998? Cost? $600 will get you a lot these days when it comes to technology. Let me be clear, I like Garmin which is why I have owned so many of their products. I just don't like where the company is going lately. I want the company to make money as it benefits the customer as well as Garmin. A successful company can develop better technology at a lower cost. The problem I am seeing with Garmin lately is they have started to get overly expensive for the level of technology they are selling in these units. I don't mind dropping $600 every two years for a GPS but make it worth my time and money. The markup on these units seem to have gotten as bad as the jewelry industry.

    Case in point:

    My $480 cell phone (Full retail, out of contract) has a 1ghz processor, 512ram, and 8gb of storage. I put it in a waterproof case and I now have a GPS that is supported by the full power of the internet for weather, a giant resource of free maps, a plethora of different gps type apps, etc.

    The $500 Oregon 450t has a 206mhz processor, 64 MB RAM, and 850mb of storage. That’s about all it has. Those specs are AWFUL for a device that is brand new.

    Garmin tried to play this nonsense game a few years ago by refusing to include removable media slots in their devices. "Why would anyone want or need to load the entire USA [topo] onto their GPS?" is a direct quote from a few years ago; I wish I saved the article. (<-Poss because people were tired of wasting half a day loading maps onto your slow USB 1.1 unit) They found out very quickly they were making a stupid decision that cost them revenue, especially after every other manufacture had already started to include the feature.

    Garmin has one of the worst business models I have ever seen. GPS service is free and thus the profit from post-GPS sales is limited to maps and accessories. You think the company would start producing units with modern technology to entice people to upgrade. Why would anyone spend $500 to upgrade when what they offer can hardly be called an upgrade?

    It&#8217;s the equivalent of going to the store in 2010 to upgrade from a typewriter, and walking away with an electric typewriter instead of a computer. In 2006 the mass spending the company did in R&D paid off with an 85%+ profit increase with the stocks in 2007 reaching $100 a share. That&#8217;s a far cry from where they are today, even taking the awful economy into consideration. The only reason the company is making any money is they are selling 10 year old technology at inflated prices. The problem is that only lasts so long before it catches up with a company.

    Again, I want to see Garmin do well and to do so, someone needs to get off their high horse, change this arrogant attitude of &#8220;whatever we make you will buy, no matter how bad it is&#8221;, and stop being so greedy.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 15 years ago
    Hi THALINOR!

    excellent feedback! I had the same feeling about the technology of new Garmin devices - there is no real progress in it. On the other hand it's not easy finding the right balance between fast processors and low battery consumption (indeed, this has nothing to do with the cheap chipsets Garmin is using now).