A thought about Garmins fate

Now with Iphone and others coming out with apps for GPS and ANT+, Garnim is likely to become obsolete.

Unless you have worldwide coverage with your iPhone, and at a comparable cost, I doubt it.

One example of how Garmin is trying to stay ahead of the game is their nuviphone, which is supposed to be a good phone with a great GPS. IMHO, they are entering a very crowded and competitive smart phone market without much to offer, but I'm not the CEO so time will tell if it was a good move or not.

The nuviphone may have been competitive if it was released shortly after it was first announced, but the extended delay allowed other smart phones to stake out more ground, while customer expectations of what a smart phone should "do" grew as each new phone from other vendors was released. I think it (the delay) also sowed the seeds of doubt of Garmin's ability to execute, that may have far reaching effects beyond the success (or lack of success) the nuviphone has in the marketplace.

As you say, time will tell. And Garmin may have to do something bold to react to the changing technology market. But the more I think of it, it seems that the nuviphone is akin to Canonndale's ill fated experiment with off road vehicles.

But the more I think of it, it seems that the nuviphone is akin to Canonndale's ill fated experiment with off road vehicles.

I remember that. That sure was a boneheaded move that led to Cannondale going under.

Minor point -- it wasn't "off road vehicles," but rather off road motorized vehicles.

Lots of good info MTBIKERNATE, thanks.

I bike on the open roads. I've used the gps feature on my verizon phone, and maybe because it was in a populated area, it was spot on. So, yeah, for remote or covered areas, I can see the problem. The app I linked seems to do everything you talked about in the Garmin. Even it it doesn't, it's a step. I don't see the next steps being far off. I'd like to see Garmin stay steps ahead. I don't think I'm wrong in thinking apps and hardware from competition are coming. Things just move so fast today.

But does that really need to be said? I mean, duh...of course every consumer electronics company wants a piece of Garmin's pie. Garmin established themselves early in consumer GPS equipment when there were few players. Now there are probably hundreds when you consider the global marketplace. Duh.

And look at companies like Navteq. How many hardware manufacturers and software developers do you figure they supply GPS data to? Companies like Navteq will sell map data to anyone willing to build hardware or write a program to include it. I'm sure they're only happy to make it easier for more players to duke it out. More money for them.

In the end it won't matter much to me who makes the hardware I use, as long as it performs the tasks it's intended to perform, and it's easy to use.

But does that really need to be said? I mean, duh...of course every consumer electronics company wants a piece of Garmin's pie. Garmin established themselves early in consumer GPS equipment when there were few players. Now there are probably hundreds when you consider the global marketplace. Duh.

And look at companies like Navteq. How many hardware manufacturers and software developers do you figure they supply GPS data to? Companies like Navteq will sell map data to anyone willing to build hardware or write a program to include it. I'm sure they're only happy to make it easier for more players to duke it out. More money for them.

In the end it won't matter much to me who makes the hardware I use, as long as it performs the tasks it's intended to perform, and it's easy to use.

I'm not sure about the attitude, but I'm only trying to make a point, encourage some conversation. I own a $500 piece of hardware that does mostly what it is supposed to do. Being that it is a very specific piece of hardware, I expect it to do everything it is supposed to, and do it well. I think that Garmin is underestimating the hit they are about to take with other options.

I really don't want my Garmin to become obsolete. And yes, for the most part, it will do what I want it to do even without future updates. But that would be like keeping an old cell phone instead of moving up to one that offers mapping, texting, internet, etc... todays phones that are standard. I don't think that taking more than a year to bring the software to the point it should have been at from day one is going to cut it. By now, I would expect a company that wants to compete with what is coming to be working on the future of that product.

How well do today's phones hold up to the weather? How much do some of these ANT+-based attachments for the iPhone cost that you couldn't spend a slightly more for a dedicated bike computer? How long is the battery life of a phone in full-GPS mode? How well will it work when cell reception takes a dive?

I believe the automotive navigation may have competition with the phone navigation, but for fitness, I'll take a Garmin any day.

You're not going to hear what Garmin thinks here.

Plugin accessories are not the answer for allowing a phone to compete with dedicated fitness gear. Plugin accessories add weight, and even worse for anyone doing this outside, they add BULK such that your delicate, expensive phone will no longer fit in the weatherproof cases that are available for it.

The plugin accessories are probably fine for people working out at the gym, but they won't cut it outside.

That will always be the benefit of using dedicated hardware. You won't have to buy a plug-in accessory to allow the head unit to record something. That head unit already has the capability...you only need the sensor (HRM, spd/cad, power currently). With phones, not only do you need the sensor, but you need the receiver. Unless somehow hardware manufacturers can agree on something like a bluetooth protocol for fitness accessories so they can all use the same ones. I highly doubt that. Limited spectrum would make a gym a VERY noisy place and crosstalk would get REALLY bad (as if it wasn't a big enough problem with HRMs in large gyms).

The only thing that could realistically compete with current fitness gear would be something made for the fitness market specifically, meaning it is compatible with a common HRM protocol like Polar's, and ANT+. I doubt Garmin would allow their protocol to be used on competing devices. It would need those features as standard. It would need to be able to hold up to hard use. Meaning outside, heat, cold, rain, ice, dropped. Onboard GPS. Downloadable maps so it doesn't rely on cell or wifi for live map updates. And none of that stupid "view the map when you have a connection so you cache it and then you can see it in the field with no signal" BS. Integrated pedometer for treadmill or indoor track use. Plenty of storage for maps, workout music, a weight training logbook. Waterproof for swimmers, triathletes, and adventure racers.

I could care less if the device had a phone or not, to be honest. If it did, I'd want to be able to use all the other features with the phone off. AFAIK, all these features are out there now. I only foresee an existing fitness gear company like Polar or Garmin building something that can function this way, or possibly a new company show up on the market with something like this. I do not see an existing phone company coming out with something like this because such a device with this specific feature set would limit distribution.

Only a small portion of phone users would want a phone built to handle the needs of fitness users. A larger proportion of fitness users (but a fairly small number overall) would go for a device like this that can keep track of all of their fitness activities.

The only thing that could realistically compete with current fitness gear would be something made for the fitness market specifically, meaning it is compatible with a common HRM protocol like Polar's, and ANT+. I doubt Garmin would allow their protocol to be used on competing devices.

There are 200 companies in the ANT+ alliance, including people like Timex and (the latest) Suunto, who definitely do compete with Garmin. Anyone can embed ANT chips in their devices and compete with Garmin.

I meant Garmin's protocol...you know the one they use on their own HRM straps and speed/cadence sensors?