Difference between run time and moving time

This answer won’t be satisfying, but moving time and run/walk time are calculated by different algorithms, so they won’t necessarily line up (even though we might expect them to). (Moving time has existed on Garmin devices for a lot longer than the run/walk feature, and I assume the 2 features have completely separate implementations)

For example, Garmin says that run/walk time is calculated based on pace and cadence. They never really explained how they calculate moving time, although I assume it’s only based on pace. For what it’s worth, Strava uses a 30:00/mile moving threshold for running — anything faster than that is considered moving.

Yeah, I realize that saying “they’re calculated differently” is not really a great explanation, but that’s all I’ve got. I see the same kind of discrepancy all the time.

What’s kinda interesting in your case is that even if the “moving” threshold was faster than the “inactive” threshold for run/walk (which would explain why you have more “not moving” seconds than “inactive” seconds), logically you would expect the 8-second difference to be made up by “walking” seconds. iow it would be make a certain amount of sense for “not moving” seconds to be categorized as “walking” and “inactive” by the run/walk algorithm, but instead they’re apparently categorized as “running” and “inactive”.

But since we don’t know exactly how these algorithms work, I guess some unexplained fuzziness is to be expected

trux said:

If the auto-pause is enabled, the time the auto-pause is active, the time is not included in the Time and Moving Time values. So if you stopped at the light, it took 4 seconds to trigger the auto-pause (timer still running), then you waited 8 seconds with the auto-pause on (timer not running), and then you started moving again, and the auto-pause ended.

That doesn’t really explain the discrepancy between the activity/moving time calculations and the run/walk calculations.

- As per the activity/moving time calculations, OP spent 1:07:00 moving and 12 seconds not moving

- As per run/walk calculations, OP spent 1:07:08 running and 4 seconds idle

Both calculations indicate a total (unpaused) activity time of 1:07:12.

For auto-pause to be a factor in the discrepancy, the time that the watch was paused due to auto-pause would have to be included in one calculation and not the other, which does not seem to be the case (and would not make sense).

Besides, their Total Time (Tempo totale) and Elapsed Time (Tempo trascorso) are identical, indicating that the activity was never paused.

Having said all of that, I can think of one plausible explanation.

Assuming that the run/walk algorithm uses pace and cadence (as Garmin says), and moving time only uses pace, if you lost GPS for 8 seconds, it could be that the moving time algorithm considered you to be standing still during that time, while the run/walk algorithm considered you to be running (due to your cadence).

I still don’t like this answer because when you lose GPS, afaik the watch should start using pace from accelerometer. (Maybe it takes a few seconds to switch over, maybe this pace isn’t used for the moving time algorithm, or maybe I’m wrong about the watch using pace from accelerometer in this case)

As I wrote, pauses are excluded from the Time and Moving Time, so they will only appear in the Elapsed Time.

FlowState said:

when you lose GPS, afaik the watch should start using pace from accelerometer

It indeed happens and seamlessly. It has absolutely no impact on the time values.

FlowState said:

This answer won’t be satisfying, but moving time and run/walk time are calculated by different algorithms, so they won’t necessarily line up (even though we might expect them to). (Moving time has existed on Garmin devices for a lot longer than the run/walk feature, and I assume the 2 features have completely separate implementations)

For example, Garmin says that run/walk time is calculated based on pace and cadence. They never really explained how they calculate moving time, although I assume it’s only based on pace. For what it’s worth, Strava uses a 30:00/mile moving threshold for running — anything faster than that is considered moving.

Yeah, I realize that saying “they’re calculated differently” is not really a great explanation, but that’s all I’ve got. I see the same kind of discrepancy all the time.

What’s kinda interesting in your case is that even if the “moving” threshold was faster than the “inactive” threshold for run/walk (which would explain why you have more “not moving” seconds than “inactive” seconds), logically you would expect the 8-second difference to be made up by “walking” seconds. iow it would be make a certain amount of sense for “not moving” seconds to be categorized as “walking” and “inactive” by the run/walk algorithm, but instead they’re apparently categorized as “running” and “inactive”.

But since we don’t know exactly how these algorithms work, I guess some unexplained fuzziness is to be expected

Thank you for the reply. What's the difference between "not moving" and "inactive"?

FlowState said:

Having said all of that, I can think of one plausible explanation.

Assuming that the run/walk algorithm uses pace and cadence (as Garmin says), and moving time only uses pace, if you lost GPS for 8 seconds, it could be that the moving time algorithm considered you to be standing still during that time, while the run/walk algorithm considered you to be running (due to your cadence).

I still don’t like this answer because when you lose GPS, afaik the watch should start using pace from accelerometer. (Maybe it takes a few seconds to switch over, maybe this pace isn’t used for the moving time algorithm, or maybe I’m wrong about the watch using pace from accelerometer in this case)

If I've lost the GPS on open roads, that will be bad from a Garmin watch (I have the Fenix 8).

From the documentation at Defining the Time, Pace, and Speed Measurement Fields in Garmin Connect | Garmin Customer Support

• Moving Time: Includes only the time you were moving.
• Time/Timer: Includes time moving and time not moving as long as the timer was running (if Auto Pause is turned on this will prevent time not moving from being included in this detail).
• Elapsed Time: Includes all time from the initial starting of the timer and when the activity is saved.

So the pauses (both auto-pause and manual pauses) are not included in Time and in Moving Time. Additionally, if you are inactive (not moving) during the activity, you will see the yellow gaps in the graph, but unlike the pauses, the time is included in the Time (not in the Moving Time though)

ValTur said:

If I've lost the GPS on open roads, that will be bad from a Garmin watch (I have the Fenix 8).

It happens all the time (underpasses, tunnels, dense vegetation, urban jungle, ...) and poses no problems (assuming already well calibrated), since the pace is estimated from your cadence (detected by the accelerometer).

trux said:

So the pauses (both auto-pause and manual pauses) are not included in Time and in Moving Time. Additionally, if you are inactive (not moving) during the activity, you will see the yellow gaps in the graph, but unlike the pauses, the time is included in the Time (not in the Moving Time though)

I have to understand well this thing about time, it still seems confusing to me and this doesn't explain why I have a moving time inferior compared to the run time. As I said I've just stopped for 4 seconds at a street light, that's all. But still, my moving time is 8 seconds less than my run time. But regarding the GPS I run on open road without any tunnels, underpasses etc. Only open sky, so I shouldn't lose the GPS signal hopefully.