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Fitness Level - vO2Max - multiple disciplines

Sasse1982
Hi there!

I am using an Edge 1030 with Stages power meter for mountain biking and a Vivoactive 3 for running and as a 24/7 fitness tracker.
The power meter is quite new but I already had some trainings to get some data out of it.

Now, looking at all the analytics Garmin provides, I am a little bit confused and also disappointed and I want to know if the fault is on my side (either by understanding it or doing sth. wrong) or if the Garmin connect software is to blame.

VO2max estimation

From every running activity with my Vivoactive 3 a VO2max is calculated (or estimated).
But from my rides with the Edge 1030 and the powermeter, no single VO2max value is available.
What's wrong? Why can Garmin estimate a VO2max for running without any power information but can't provide a value for biking with power meter?
Okay, Garmin says to ride 20 min at a constant "high load", I didn't do it, I was just riding for fun and I don't have climbs around that are long enough, but I would expect that at least a rough value could be calculated never the less, just as for random running without any power information.
Do you have any idea what I should do to get a vO2max value for biking? How is it working with your devices? Is a value provided for every random training or only if you follow the 20 min high load instructions?

PS: Also no FTP value is provided automatically.
PPS: I already followed the hint I found in another thread to enter the resting heart rate in my Edge 1030. But I ask myself why this is not automatically synced, since my Vivoactive3 is measuring the resting heart rate every day.

Training status and training load

This report seems to behave a little bit strange.

The week before Christmas I had a cold and after Christmas I started again very slowly with biking. During this time the training load shows the highest values of the past 4 weeks.
Since January then I constantly increased frequency and intensity of my activities, but the training load is more or less stable and decreasing a bit. Today it shows the lowest value since my cold although I had a comparable high intensity ride with steep climbs and heart rate peaks above 180 bpm.
My last running activity from 2 days ago even doesn't show up in the diagram and maybe isn't considered at all.
The training status itself is blank and showing nothing since Christmas where it showed for around a week "Detraining".

Is the progress of my training load plausible or not?
My impression is, that Garmin is not capable of putting all the gathered data from different devices and different disciplines into a properly working overall analysis.
And this is really disappointing since the devices itself are really powerful but more or less useless if they don't work together properly. And I guess that many Garmin users are doing multiple disciplines.

What do you think about it and what were your experiences so far?
  • 0
    But from my rides with the Edge 1030 and the powermeter, no single VO2max value is available.


    For a cycling VO2max estimate you need both power and heart rate data. Do you have a heart rate sensor paired (and worn during workout) with your edge?

    My impression is, that Garmin is not capable of putting all the gathered data from different devices and different disciplines into a properly working overall analysis.


    Your impression is more or less correct.


    And I guess that many Garmin users are doing multiple disciplines.


    One can do multiple disciplines with one device. In that case it would work as you expect. But when you use different devices interchangeably then the overall picture is far from perfect.


  • 0
    For a cycling VO2max estimate you need both power and heart rate data. Do you have a heart rate sensor paired (and worn during workout) with your edge?


    Yes, forgot to mention that, I always wear a heart rate sensor.

    One can do multiple disciplines with one device. In that case it would work as you expect. But when you use different devices interchangeably then the overall picture is far from perfect.


    Really disappointing since it's absolutely not making sense to use one device for everything, since every discipline has a device that is optimized for it. At least that's my opinion.
    I can't use a Edge 1030 as a fitness tracker and it's kind of stupid to use it for a running activity, you can't even create a profile for that.
    Using the VA3 for Biking also not a good idea due to the lack of features and possibility to display information compared to the Edge.

    I hope Garmin is working on this.
  • 0
    Just wanted to give an update on the VO2max issue. Today it worked for the first time.
    What was different?
    1. I uninstalled the App "Whats my FTP" from Xert, because it often didn't work properly.
    2. The ride was longer and had more steep climbs in it, the overall average power was higher.

    So maybe the app disturbed the Garmin VO2max/FTP calculation or the load profile now was suitable for the estimation.

    The training status and training load diagram is now totally broken, doesn't show any values of the last 4 weeks at all... well, let's hope Garmin will sort it out.:rolleyes:
  • 0
    Hi,

    I sincerely doubt that there was any disturbance from the Xert app, but I don't know anything about that particular app...

    Most likely you weren't getting enough stable/sustained data from your power meter for the Firstbeat analytics engine to produce a sufficiently reliable calculation. In case you weren't already aware, the analysis functions in part by placing your internal workload (how hard your body is working) derived from heartbeat data into the context of your external workload. In the case of cycling, your external workload is measured by the number of watts you are producing. When you are running, this external workload comes from your running speed (GPS).

    The constant changes involved in mountain biking can create some pretty significant challenges when it comes to identifying the representative data with confidence.

    I'm guessing that your recent "longer" ride simply had enough reliable segments for a credible analysis.

    Hope that helps.
  • 0
    Hi Herman,

    thanks for your explanations.
    I guess you are right. Last Saturday I did another ride and it again didn't produce any result regarding vO2max or FTP.
    The average training intensity was similar to the ride before, but maybe the segments weren't suitable enough.

    I assume that the algorithm also demands some "minimum intensity" to be activated at all, am I right?
    On Saturday I had a long steady climb for around half an our, but since it was at the beginning I kept my heart rate low for warming up.
    Maybe you can roughly outline some of the minimum conditions the algorithm needs to collect relevant data? (something like minimum heart rate and power and minimum stable duration etc...)
    Knowing these conditions I could sometimes try to meet them during a climb on a (gravel)road and increase the chances for a successful result.

    Another question: Does the algorithm need time to calculate after saving the activity or will it be calculated and displayed right away? I usually turn off the device a few seconds after ending the activity any might interrupt any calculation active in the background.

    Thanks!
  • 0
    There's a 'troubleshooting' recommendation that if someone is having trouble getting at VO2max estimate that they should "go for a run of at least 10 (sometimes the recommendation is 15) minutes with an intensity >70% of HRmax under fairly steady conditions - meaning you aren't doing a lot of stopping, starting, intensity intervals, etc" - those aren't 'minimum thresholds,' per se, but rather a guide towards the "hey, you should def be getting a reading zone."

    I'm not super familiar with the Edge 1030, but in the running watches VO2max is typically displayed / displayable as soon as you save the activity.
  • 0
    Thanks again for the additional information. That will certainly help to understand the VO2max calc better. I will try to add some more steady climbing segments with 150 bpm + in my rides. Let's see if this will produce some more VO2max values.