Issues with Basecamp

Just for reference, my BC opens and becomes fully operational in 7 seconds. I currently have 1670 entities (waypoints, routes, etc., no birdseye views) in my database. Do you have the maps installed on the computer? I think if you are using the maps on the device, that can take longer to open typically.

Okay, for reference, Basecamp takes 9 seconds until that honking big ugly logo disappears and I can start working with it. That's with almost nothing in the database.

Mapsource takes under 2 seconds. It's too quick to be more accurate than that.

It's not just the exact timing; it's the perception. I feel like I can start working with Mapsource almost instantly whereas Basecamp always makes me wait.

...ken...

Mine works in under 5 seconds and includes a whole load of Birdseye downloads, but really ... is it so vital to be able to access the program any quicker? If you're that fussed just keep it open ... then it's available instantly. Word takes almost as long as Basecamp ... and I don't see folks complaining about that :)

I'm not sure why you say that. Always seemed the other way around to me. With BC I can organise my data into lists and folders and only choose to display the ones I want. BC is only 'cluttered' if you keep all your data in one long list.

With MS it was all or nothing, or I had to keep closing/opening files throughout my workflow.

Clearly that works for you. I see it as major nuisance to have to constantly [re]organize all the clutter that results from using Basecamp. And to have to regularly prune out all the duplication that either I am forced to create for things like experimenting with various versions of a complex route or that Basecamp creates all by itself as a side effect of such operations. And to have to be extremely careful that when I'm doing the [re]organizing and cleaning I don't get rid of something that is an actual data item and not just a reference to it.

With Basecamp I have to be constantly aware of the underlying operation and structure. In some cases it's because Basecamp forces me to be aware of it or I can't use it effectively. In some cases it's self defense.

It would be great if the designers of Basecamp also understood the concept of sandboxing and had implemented that as part of the design. Mapsource uses it by default. That is, whatever I'm working with in Mapsource is completely isolated from any other files I might have. I can mess with the current file as much as I want and totally screw it up, but as long as I don't save it I can create no harm. As long as I save the current file -- messed up or not -- by a different name I can create no harm. And Mapsource never creates stuff on its own so I don't have to try to keep track of anything I did not personally create.

When I'm done messing about, if I no longer have any interest in it I am not left with cleanup chores to return my data to the state it was in before I started. I simply exit Mapsource without saving and I'm done. Completely Done. No effort required to figure out what I have to get rid of. No scratching my head to figure out which method I use to get rid of just the stuff that was used for the experimentation without screwing up something else inadvertently.

If the Basecamp developers would add that sort of sandboxing to Basecamp so I can create an experimental "partition", do my messing about, and then either "save" it to the main database or make it disappear with one simple -- and obvious -- action and I would be a convert.

As I've mentioned before, I understand that Basecamp did not begin life as a Mapsource replacement. That doesn't bother me. What annoys me is that since the time Garmin declared that Basecamp is the Mapsource replacement there has been no change of attitude on the part of the Basecamp development team. They refuse to acknowledge that Garmin has declared it to be so. Instead we get platitudes about how much better Basecamp is and how those of us who have issues with Basecamp must be too stupid to recognize the Goodness of Basecamp.

That's a condescending attitude that I try hard to ignore and not let bother me. I'm mostly successful. But every so often a topic like this, and the issue of forced automatic updates, comes up and kicks me off again.

...ken...

Mine works in under 5 seconds and includes a whole load of Birdseye downloads, but really ... is it so vital to be able to access the program any quicker? If you're that fussed just keep it open ... then it's available instantly. Word takes almost as long as Basecamp ... and I don't see folks complaining about that :)

There are a ton of possible replacements for Word. So instead of complaining, people can just find one that suits them better. That's not the case here.

It's not just a matter of kicking our Garmin device(s) to the curb and switching brands. There is a deep and rich environment of Stuff that has grown up around the Garmin technology that simply does not exist for any other nav devices. And one requires something like Basecamp or Mapsource to take full advantage of it. At some point Mapsource will no longer work with new versions of Garmin's map products. Before that happens it would be nice if the people responsible for the design and development of Basecamp would acknowledge that it's now the only game in town and pick up some of the Goodness that Mapsource provided instead of ignoring it or actively arguing against it (as they did with categories as waypoint properties).

...ken...

It opens in 10 seconds and i have the maps installed on the computer.
Word always started up slowly, BC as a "new improved" program replacing a "dated" program should not be slower... at least not this much slower.
The crashing occurs every fist time after starting BC and does so since the first version, no update changed is, even a clean new install makes no difference.

There are a ton of possible replacements for Word. So instead of complaining, people can just find one that suits them better. That's not the case here.

It's not just a matter of kicking our Garmin device(s) to the curb and switching brands. There is a deep and rich environment of Stuff that has grown up around the Garmin technology that simply does not exist for any other nav devices. And one requires something like Basecamp or Mapsource to take full advantage of it. At some point Mapsource will no longer work with new versions of Garmin's map products. Before that happens it would be nice if the people responsible for the design and development of Basecamp would acknowledge that it's now the only game in town and pick up some of the Goodness that Mapsource provided instead of ignoring it or actively arguing against it (as they did with categories as waypoint properties).

...ken...

At least someone that understands my issues.

[QUOTE=Ray Teeld;445436]The crashing occurs every fist time after starting BC and does so since the first version, no update changed is, even a clean new install makes no difference.

You have a different problem, for most of us, whether we like BC or not, it's not crashing :)

Is there an error message when BaseCamp crashes? Can you take a screen shot of when it crashes?

No error massage, it's not a complete crash but more a freeze with the message on top "Basecamp is not responding" and after 10 - 20 seconds it comes back to live with the results.