Basecamp annoyances - labels and popups

Are the detail levels the same?

Using Basecamp, and without changing the zoom level, I switched between Topo and R&R, and the labels are completely different. For example, R&R has three labels reading "Pawnee Lake" and Topo has several labels saying "Pawnee State Recreation Area", "Pawnee Lake" and even "Pawnee Dam Site 14". The Global map doesn't even show the lake.

It's expected that you would see different labels for different maps.

I was wondering if the labels for the same map look significantly different for MapSource and BaseCamp at the same detail level.

Just to clarify for those who haven't figured it out, the multiple label deal is totally map dependent. That is, for any given object in the map database there could be a varying number of labels available.

Well, that's probably inaccurate. It's more likely that any given point on the map could be encompassed by more than one object, each object having a label available. E.g. if you hover over some point on a lake, say, a marina, that point is likely encompassed by at least the marina which is part of the lake which may be part of a park. So if you hover over some point in the marina you would see the stacked labels for the marina, the lake and the park.

Of course some objects on some maps might also have multiple labels. E.g. a road might have a name and also a highway number. An intersection of that road with another road with similar labeling (road name and highway number) would then produce four labels if you hover over the intersecting point on the map.

Neither Mapsource nor Basecamp have any control over that ... neither how many object labels exist at a given point on a given map nor the label contents (might be long; might be short).

The display is affected somewhat by the zoom level and map detail level setting. That is, if an object is displayed on the map its labels will be displayed if you hover the cursor over it. So if you zoom out or set the map detail setting to a lower level of detail, some objects disappear from the map and so their labels will no longer appear when the cursor hovers over those points.

The challenge for the developers is to figure out a way to display those labels without making the map display useless.

Mapsource does it in a functional but ugly manner that takes about the minimum amount of space possible.

Basecamp's balloon display is much more esthetic (e.g. way prettier) but between the extra white space in the balloon and the balloon's shadow it obscures a larger space on the map.

I think the solution to this problem is not trying to redesign the label display. If there are 8 labels available for display at a particular point, redesigning their display isn't going help much.

The Basecamp developers have already provided at least a partial solution. In the TOOLS > OPTIONS menu you can click on DISPLAY and move the Labels slider to fewer.

The issue that really needs fixing is the "proximity" behaviour of the label display in Basecamp. In Mapsource as soon as you move the cursor a few pixels away from a point the labels disappear. That's not the case in Basecamp. You have to move the cursor much farther to make the labels disappear. And the distance you have to move is variable. In some cases, the distance you have to move the cursor is so large that you might have multiple nearby points that you cannot view the labels on without moving the cursor a long ways away to make the current label display disappear and then move the cursor back to the nearby point you want displayed. Most annoying.

And while we're on annoying, the bouncing back and forth between Basecamp and Mapsource to do the comparisons for this discussion has only served to remind me just how much slower Basecamp is, especially loading. While it has improved a lot since earlier versions, it's still a performance dog by comparison to almost any other app on my computer.

Shucks, even Microsoft's bloated Office apps load faster. :mad:

...ken...

...
I was wondering if the labels for the same map look significantly different for MapSource and BaseCamp at the same detail level.

"look significantly different" ??

Of course they look different. The label display is totally different. Balloon with shadow versus stacked boxes.

But you probably meant "Are there a different number of labels displayed?" Yes?

The answer to that is, Sometimes.

In addition to the "proximity" issue I just described above regarding how far you have to move the cursor to make Basecamp's label display go away after it appears, there is a similar proximity issue that affects what labels are included in Basecamp's label display.

Examples using Topo Canada v4 in both programs at 7km zoom, Highest detail:

1. When I hover over the little black square that represents a small town beside a highway and a railway line, Mapsource displays the labels for the town name, the highway number and the railway line:

Marquis, Cpr, Hwy 42

Basecamp displays those labels but also includes a nearby contour line:

Marquis, Cpr, Hwy 42, 600 m height

2. Hovering over another small town on the same rail line and highway and near the intersection of another highway, Mapsource displays the town name, the highway number and the rail line:

Tuxford, Cpr, Hwy 42

Basecamp displays those three labels plus it grabs the nearby intersecting highway:

Tuxford, Cpr, Hwy 42, Hwy 2

Two things to note:

A. Basecamp consistently includes labels for nearby objects that are farther away from the cursor position than Mapsource does.

B. Both programs erroneously use proper case for the railway line when it should be upper case. It should be CPR, not Cpr.

I tried similar comparisons with City Navigator NA 2012.2 with similar results. That is, although there are fewer objects to display on the road map versus the topo map, Basecamp will always display labels for objects that are farther away from the cursor position than Mapsource will and you always have to move the cursor much farther away to make the label display disappear.

I think this "proximity" behaviour difference in Basecamp is part of the problem, causing it to display more labels than it needs to at any given point on the map, versus what Mapsource will display. This will be particularly bothersome on topo maps which almost always have more objects in play at a given point at a given zoom level.

I hope that's a good answer to the question you almost asked. ;)

...ken...

Ken, I think you and I are talking about totally different things.

I am not talking about pop-ups, balloons or anything. I am talking about the actual labels that are rendered on the map, not what pops up when you hover over the map with the mouse.

At least that is how I interpreted the first issue raised by the thread opener.

Hi Falagar,

I believe you are correct.

Testing with Topo Canada v4 at various zoom levels at Highest detail I see no difference in how many labels are displayed between Mapsource and Basecamp.

In either program, the tighter the zoom the more likely multiple labels will show up for certain object types. For instance, a lake or park will have its name displayed in multiple locations within its boundaries. But it appears that these labels will appear the same number of times in the same locations in both programs at a given zoom/detail level.

I see no difference in how they are displayed, e.g. same locations, same font size, same font (all relevant display settings at defaults in both programs).

That appears to be a tradeoff made by the map makers so at tight zoom levels you don't have to scroll so far in a large object like a lake or a park before you can see its name. That is, the labels appear to be objects in the map database that both programs will display at the zoom/detail levels that allow it rather than something artificially generated by the programs. But that's just a guess. :confused:

I did not mess with the "Labels" slider in the Basecamp display preferences because that's not a fair comparison. I left it in it its default position.

Better answer? :)

...ken...

Definitely. :)

And both issues are valid concerns. We'll see if we can fix them, but as always, I cannot say when.

Have you tried the 4.3 beta? While still not perfect it's a big improvement.