Understanding BC Lists vs. MapSource Files

I'm having trouble using the BC collection and lists concept....

After exporting a list (ride), if I delete list and contents, I lose every occurrence of a waypoint that may also be in another List. If I remove list, I'll end up with garbage from every ride I ever Imported.
...

What am I not understanding?

In at least one of the earlier versions of BaseCamp you were easily able to just delete the unique items in q list thereby leaving all items used in other lists intact. Haven't tried this lately so I don't know if its still available as an option. If not, it should be put back.

I'm also a long time MapSource user trying to make the switch. I've been using Import/Export like open and save. It's a pain in the ass but I'm getting used to it. I HATE that you can't open a route and play with it without saving. I don't get it?

There should be no need to blast the collection every time. Just keep the rides in their respective lists.

We are working on a feature that will allow you to delete a list and its unique contents. So you can blast a list and all its data away without having to worry about deleting stuff in other lists.

I am slowly making my way from MapSource to Basecamp. At first it confused me too. But now I am understanding how it it put together and being effective with basecamp - and not having to export/import all the. My suggestion is - do not treat it like Mapsource and its file based database - it just becomes a pain to manage.

Think of basecamp like a master collection of GDB files - but in the case of basecamp, the "list" is the the GDB file.


Here is how you can make it work for you:

Within a collection you can have lists. Each list can contain tracks, waypoints, pictures, etc. Use a "list" for each of your rides "ride"

When you want to work with a "ride" you just click on the appropriate "list" and add new waypoints, tracks etc.

Keep it all within basecamp, do not import/export to "save" your data - this is not needed. Saving to a file is a mapsource concept. Basecamp, everything is saved automatically.

If you want to import a track from a buddy, just import it. It will create a new list. When you want to get rid of the list, just right mouse click on the temporary list, and select "delete list and contents". This *only* deletes the list and the contents in the list.

I avoid trying to keep anything in the "collection". That just gets too confusing for me. Each of my rides (or trips, or hikes, or whatever) are in each seperate lists.

The only thing that is a problem for me is that is a single database, but I have a way around it until the Basecamp dev team adds a multiple database feature. (see p[age 3 of https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=21979 )

However I should add: I try to be very careful when deleting a list. If I make the mistake of deleting just the list, and not "list and contents", then the contents becomes part of the collection. I then have to do a bunch of searching to find it.

When you want to get rid of the list, just right mouse click on the temporary list, and select "delete list and contents". This *only* deletes the list and the contents in the list.

Thank you for the explanation.

I do have to correct one thing though. "Deleting List and Contents" will delete ALL data that was in the list, even if some of the data was also present in other lists. That is something I mentioned above that we'd like to change so it only deletes the list and contents that are unique to that list. (The Mac already does it that way.)

Regarding accidentally deleting only the list and not the contents, we are planning to make it easier to identify "orphaned" items (that aren't in any list).

We are also looking into adding a Ctrl-Delete Short-Cut that will delete items (and lists) from the database. When pressing Delete while having a list or data in a list selected it will only remove that data from the list (it will still be in My Collection, Ctrl-Delete will remove the data from the database.

As with all future features I mention here, I am not sure when these will make it into a release, or things might change and they might never make it. But I thought I'd give you guys some idea of what we're up to.

Deleting List Contents

Thanks for your encouragement that there may be improvements.

Waypoints can be a real problem in the Collection. I'll either end up with many unique names for the same waypoint with no way to know which list has a unique name or one waypoint that is updated with any new import so I don't know the quality of that waypoint data.

1. Unique Waypoints. My club sends out another route to a destination of "Meatheads Burgers". Upon import, I now have "Meatheads Burgers 1" in the Collection, because I have my own "Meadheads Burgers" where I've put a website, full extended XML address fields, etc. After a few years, I may end up with 10 or more copies of the same waypoint. Since I don't necessarily know which contains the quality data, I have a hard time managing my collection.
2. Common Waypoints. This makes for a devil of a time removing temporary lists where I want to view a route and waypoints, but it is temporary. I don't want other lists to be damaged by these waypoint updates or removal of them.

I have not zeroed in on when I get a uniquely named waypoint, when a waypoint is linked to existing waypoints and when existing waypoints are overwritten.

It seems the only practical solution to have stable data is to delete everything from the collection, backup that cleared status, then restore it every time I want to build a list and export that list to a gdb if I want to keep it.

... Keep it all within basecamp, do not import/export to "save" your data - this is not needed. Saving to a file is a mapsource concept. Basecamp, everything is saved automatically. ...

But that's one of the most significant problems with Basecamp for those who like to do complex route planning, like for motorcycle trips. You can't ever just play with a route to see what some variations will produce and then just NOT save it so that the next time you load that GDB file you will have automatically reverted to the original.

The only way I can think of to do this is to export the Basecamp collection to a GDB file BEFORE experimenting, experiment with the route and, if you want to revert, blow away the entire Basecamp collection and import the original GDB file.

Unfortunately, the exported GDB file is never a proper copy of the actual Basecamp collection so this process is fraught with its own problems.

Or you can get more complicated and use your process for "switching" Basecamp collections by making a copy of the database folder structure with a new name and using it to revert back to. Safer but even more complicated.

Basecamp really really really needs a versioning mechanism that will allow me to easily revert to an original route when I'm done noodling and don't like/want the results.

Or perhaps someone can describe an easier way -- using Basecamp's exisiting features -- to play with a route without Basecamp's autosave mechanism screwing up the original??

CAVEAT: the process must result in any related "temporary" waypoints/viapoints/routepoints used in the experimenting also being gone when you're done and don't want the results, as would happen in Mapsource by simply exiting and NOT saving the file.

...ken...

How about:

• create a new list.
  
• in this list either paste an existing route or create a new one.
  
• to copy an existing route you must rename the original before pasting or you will merely paste a link.
  
• play around.
  
• when finished, right-click the test list and delete it and its contents.
  

Will that work?