routes with street intersections as viapoints, NOT POIs

I've started using basecamp to eliminate 'phantom lines' from routes made in Mapsource and then uploaded to my zumo 550. (Garmin knows this is a problem and suggested using Basecamp as a work around).

Early results are positive for eliminating the phantom lines BUT I find it much more difficult to build a route in Basecamp and keep out unwanted POIs as viapoints.

What I need? The ability to build a route in Basecamp using viapoints defined by the two street names at the desired intersection. Basecamp will do this ONLY if there are no POIs nearby. Sometimes by wiggling the route cursor one can get a popup window showing a list of POIs and maybe a street intersection which could be used to build a waypoint. This is slow, awkward and I don't want a route cluttered with unwanted waypoints.

By comparison, in Mapsource, moving the route cursor over the intersection, a popup window will appear letting you know when you've captured the intersection (defined by the two street names).

The attached provides an example of what I don't want. I originally clicked on the intersection to place a viapoint but what I ended up with was a viapoint defined by this gas station, which I don't want. I'm assuming that once loaded in the zumo, this gas station will also be announced, which I don't want.

Is there something I'm missing or is this ability not available?

Thanks

0 AugustFalcon over 13 years ago

You have to drag into the left box of the route properties dialog. A plus cursor will appear and a black line where you can choose where to insert the waypoint.

I have tested this multiple times, I am reasonable certain that this works.

Even though I'm not the OP it took me 20 tries to figure this out!

1. Locate the waypoint in the data view pane.
2. Hope that your route is visible at the same time in the data view pane because there is no way to scroll the pane to reach it if it isn't visible!
3. Left click on the waypoint in the data view pane and drag the waypoint to the route in the data view pane.
4. Keep holding the left hand mouse button down until the route properties window opens (usually over the map).
5. When the route properties window has opened then while still holding the left mouse button down move the cursor over to the left route properties pane and watch for the black line.
6. Move the cursor until the black line is where you want the waypoint inserted.
7. Release the left mouse button.

Please add the ability to scroll the data view pane while dragging a waypoint. Even if I make a custom list containing only waypoints I want to have in my route they can still overflow the data view pane and I will have no way to reach them and then drag them to the route.

0 kganshirt over 13 years ago

We'll see what we can do about categories.

Thank you.

Yes you can now, I forgot when we added that. Even for tracks and routes, unlike MapSource. We do listen to what you say sometimes... ;)

Much appreciated. Once there is a safe version to use I'll give it a whirl.

Well, there is Backups you can do. Then there is the *.bak files you can fall back on if you want to roll back. We also keep old Databases, so if you upgrade from 3.1 to 3.2, we will keep the 3.1 around in case something went wrong. But I understand what you mean, of course. However, that is how BaseCamp was designed. It's an app with a consistent database, not a document-based one.

That does not make me feel particularly sanguine. Look what happened with a double dot update, e.g. 3.2.1 to 3.2.2. First the problem with duplicating tracks, compounded by the fact that there was nothing to fall back to.

Duplicate a route, experiment, delete if you don't like it. :)

Ummm... see my previous point. Is that really safe? :eek:

Changing one thing usually (please point out when it does and we don't warn the user) doesn't change other things.

Okay. I have Route A sitting in the collection. I put it into List A and I put it into List B. I change it in List A. It also gets changed in List B. No warning. :eek:

Yeah, yeah. *I* know that the lists are just lists of pointers. But I have an IT background that includes training and a bit of experience as a DBA so I actually understand what that means. How many ordinary users do you think understand, without being told, that they are not making a copy when they put something into a list?

Backup->Restore can just be seen as Open/Save if you want to.

Hardly. Nowhere near the managability of Save/Save As. Like using a sledgehammer to swat mosquitos.

Nothing gets sucked into the My Collection when you connect a device. You have to actively put it there from the device. We display everything on the device, of course.

Okay, more confusion on my part. It's files that get sucked in and hang around. That is, if I open, say, a GPX file everything in it automatically gets put into the collection and doesn't ever go away. No way to simply open it, look at what's in it and then close it and have all the stuff go away. Now it's there, permanently cluttering things up.

...ken...

0 stevebrophy over 13 years ago

Quote:
Duplicate a route, experiment, delete if you don't like it.
Ummm... see my previous point. Is that really safe?

Currently, it is not safe. If you duplicate a route, you can insert and erase points without affecting the original, but if you move points, the same points get moved in the original. Just tried this on 3.2.2.

Steve

0 Former Member over 13 years ago

Currently, it is not safe. If you duplicate a route, you can insert and erase points without affecting the original, but if you move points, the same points get moved in the original. Just tried this on 3.2.2.

Steve

Just tried this myself and it moves it in each route. Not good! OK you wanted some feedback so here goes...

One big annoyance from my short time using the program is the inability to dock the left hand pane. I spend most of my time in the map window and want it as large as possible. I don't need to see the data on the left all the time.
Backup and restore is not a substitute for save as. The former operates on the entire collection and the latter on one file. Like shooting flies with a 12 ga.
Backup and restore is not really a backup. If the HD dies so does your data. It looks like BC saves its file in C:\Documents and Settings\<<username>>\Application Data\GARMIN\BaseCamp\Database\3.2. This needs to be part of a routine that backs up to an external device.
Annoyance number 2(true in MS as well): Why can't the map be dragged with the pointer tool(or any of the tools for that matter) instead of going up to the toolbar and clicking the hand tool and then going back up and clicking the selection tool again. If you use the program a lot this (true in MS too) will make you nuts! I use the arrow keys a lot but it should be a simple thing to programaticly(SP?) to recognize a click and drag from just a click.
Annoyance number 3 (also true in MS): You have to zoom in to .2mi to see minor roads and then scroll huge amounts of screen real estate to see where they go. It would be SO HELPFUL if as you zoom out instead of completely disappearing they were deprecated to a single line and then slowly fade as the view got larger finally disappearing as the zoom got to 1mi or 1.5mi. This would be so welcomed and useful. As it is I keep Google maps open to the same area(because they do this) just for the overview.

1,4 and 5 would even be beneficial to the masses of users the program is aimed at. The population is getting more computer savvy and they expect these kinds on usability issues to be dealt with.
OK off to work. I'll be back later to abuse you some more :) Just kidding. I've always thought Garmin had some of the best support so whip your programmers up and lets make this better..

John

0 PLARKINJR over 13 years ago

Two things. First:

Windows XP SP3 BaseCamp 3.2.2 I don't have it. Here's screenshots of the menus

I think FALAGAR used the word "folders" in reference to the "List in Library" within "My Collection".

Second, on the topic of everything in one file vs multiple files, I think much can be learned from Intuit's Quicken software (you know, the checkbook app)....
In a raw install of Quicken, it looks in typical locations for a quicken database file, and presents a list of them, or failing that asks you to name your file. After that, when you launch the app with no arguments, it uses the file that was open when it was last closed. And within each file are accounts (like your checking, savings and credit cards), which kind of parallels BC's "lists". If you click a quicken db file in Windows Explorer, the app launches on that file. Most users just launch quicken and use the same file over and over. But, power-users can use different files for different reasons: Maybe they want to keep their own books in one file, and if they keep the books for a club or non-profit organization, or small business separately, they use a different file for that. In fact, quicken support often tells you to temporarily create a new file and experiment with what you want to do on that, thus preventing your "regular" from getting mangled.

Sorry if I'm further unraveling this thread. :)

0 PLARKINJR over 13 years ago

I am not sure these forums are a great measuring tool for this. But yes, sometimes it just doesn't work, and this is where your feedback is invaluable to us. If something doesn't work for people, we'd like to hear about it in order to make it better.

Ya know, some apps in their Help dropdown have an option to "visit the forums". Not sure if you really want to open that can of worms, but if you had that option in BC, you might hear from more folks who may not know these forums exist. (After I got my first Garmin, I poked around in the dark, and ended up on some other forums for quite a while before I discovered forums.garmin.com)

0 kganshirt over 13 years ago

I've been using Quicken for years ... since the mid-80's and it's a great example of how to do that sort of thing right. Thanks for pointing it out.

...ken...

0 FALAGAR over 13 years ago

Note: I do think I understand what is bothering you about BaseCamp's data model. I am just trying to show possible work-arounds for someone who is used to MapSource

Much appreciated. Once there is a safe version to use I'll give it a whirl.

That does not make me feel particularly sanguine. Look what happened with a double dot update, e.g. 3.2.1 to 3.2.2. First the problem with duplicating tracks, compounded by the fact that there was nothing to fall back to.

Okay. I have Route A sitting in the collection. I put it into List A and I put it into List B. I change it in List A. It also gets changed in List B. No warning. :eek:

Yeah, yeah. *I* know that the lists are just lists of pointers. But I have an IT background that includes training and a bit of experience as a DBA so I actually understand what that means. How many ordinary users do you think understand, without being told, that they are not making a copy when they put something into a list?

Okay, more confusion on my part. It's files that get sucked in and hang around. That is, if I open, say, a GPX file everything in it automatically gets put into the collection and doesn't ever go away. No way to simply open it, look at what's in it and then close it and have all the stuff go away. Now it's there, permanently cluttering things up.

I think 3.2.2 should be "safe". Really all versions are safe to try, it's not that BaseCamp will delete your MapSource data files. :)

3.2.2 fixed the duplication bug (we just introduced duplication 3.2.1), so that should be good to try. So far we've been pretty good about not jeopardizing user data in the database. So the data issues in 3.2.1 were a very regrettable mistake on our part. We will strive very hard to not repeat this in the future.

I believe BaseCamp was somewhat modeled after iTunes. You have all your data in a collection and you create lists (playlists). You don't copy the song when you put it into a playlist. Now, we could of course discuss whether this is the best approach for an application like BaseCamp. (I think I know your answer already. ;) )

Whenever you import a gpx (or gdb) file into BaseCamp it gets put into its own list. So if you don't like the contents, choose "Delete List and Contents" to get rid of it.

0 FALAGAR over 13 years ago

Currently, it is not safe. If you duplicate a route, you can insert and erase points without affecting the original, but if you move points, the same points get moved in the original. Just tried this on 3.2.2.

Steve

You might not want to duplicate your 'Home' waypoint if the duplicated route contained that point.

So currently, this is working as intended. Of course, I do realize that this doesn't work very well, if you just want to duplicate everything in the route and create two distinct routes that do not share waypoints, so you can change waypoints in one without changing the other.

We will have to investigate what the best course of action for this would be.

0 FALAGAR over 13 years ago

Backup and restore is not really a backup. If the HD dies so does your data. It looks like BC saves its file in C:\Documents and Settings\<<username>>\Application Data\GARMIN\BaseCamp\Database\3.2. This needs to be part of a routine that backs up to an external device.

Annoyance number 3 (also true in MS): You have to zoom in to .2mi to see minor roads and then scroll huge amounts of screen real estate to see where they go. It would be SO HELPFUL if as you zoom out instead of completely disappearing they were deprecated to a single line and then slowly fade as the view got larger finally disappearing as the zoom got to 1mi or 1.5mi. This would be so welcomed and useful. As it is I keep Google maps open to the same area(because they do this) just for the overview.
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John

I don't think we will change anything about the Backup. It is the user's responsibility to figure out where to back up his/her data. You can back-up to an external hard-drive, or store the Backup wherever you like. This really seems more like a general "How to back-up my data?" question.

We will increase the detail for the highest zoom level, hopefully that will address some of the "don't see enough roads when zoomed out" issues.