routes with street intersections as viapoints, NOT POIs

Thanks again for your feedback.

1. I have trouble reproducing this with 3.2.1 with the steps you've given. I switched to data view, switched to route filter (23 routes), scrolled down so route 8 was on visible on top of the list. Double-clicked to show properties, list doesn't move. Are you using a different version or am I missing something?

2. We will try to be more consistent with that.

3. Wouldn't our filters accomplish just that? Or sort them by type (symbol works usually as well).

4. Yes, this has been reported before. We have a case for this.

5. I agree that the help could use some improvements.

Per #1. I am using 3.2.1 but omitted an important step. Once the properties screen is open, click on the recalc button to recalculate the route. Route will move to the bottom of the list.

Per #3, Thanks, with your clue, I was able to figure it out.

One thing I do like about BaseCamp is that the route lines shown on screen are much smaller than Mapsource!

Is it possible to add a waypoint to an existing route and not have it assume you want it at the end? In Mapsource I would open the route properties and add it where I wanted it and then recalculate the route. With Basecamp it appears to be add it, wait for recalculate, open the properties and change order then recalculate again. Am I doing something wrong?

You can use the Insert tool (marked orange in first screen-shot) to insert points into a route. Select the route you want to add a point to (using the Select tool, hit S or use the button outlined orange in the screen-shot, then hover over the route (blue in the screen-shot) where you want a new via-point, left-click, select the position and left-click again.

Or, if you'd rather create waypoints first for your via-points, you can drag and a waypoint to a route. As soon as you hover over a route, the route properties dialog will open and allow you to drag the point to where you want it. Then use the re-calculate button to re-calculate. I attached another screen-shot trying to illustrate this.

The concepts are quite simple. It's the method of distinguishing one from the other that is likely quite subtle in the code.

POI - A formal Point Of Interest. An entry in the internal POI database with a name, location and usually other information associated with it.

Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

Via Point - A point used to create a multipoint route, e.g. Go from Point A to Point B via some other arbitrary point(s) that you will designate. If your personal navigation device supports multipoint routing, the via point can be a POI, an existing waypoint/favorite or any other form of location that is searchable on your device, e.g. address, intersection/junction, custom POI, etc. In most cases, to use something as a via point it must already exist in one of the devices' searchable databases.

Shaping Point - In Mapsource, to "shape" a route to go exactly where you want there are a couple of methods. Just as with the personal navigation device, you can edit the route's properties to insert Via points (these are not shaping points although they do serve a similar purpose). You can also just use the route tool to click on spots on the map to force the shape of a route. When you do that, you are using a location that is not already in one of the searchable location databases. Mapsource does not force you to add these points to any of the formal databases. It simply inserts the actual coordinates invisibly into the route. These are shaping points.

Shaping points occur in another, automatic, fashion as well. Even when you only designate a two-point route, e.g. go from Point A to Point B, there will usually be multiple places, usually intersections, where a change in direction is required. When building the route, the personal navigation device (or Mapsource/Basecamp) will automatically include all of these points in the route.

To easily illustrate this, you can create a two-point route in Mapsource by clicking on a Point A and a Point B that will require a few turns to get from one to the other. Now export the route to a GPX file and take a look at it with Notepad or your favorite text editor. You will see that, in addition to the starting point and the ending point, there will be a bunch of other points <rtept> in the file to control all the turns.

I apologize if you already knew all that. Perhaps it will be helpful to others with inquiring minds. :)

...ken...

Thanks Ken, it can be confusing and this was concise and helpful

Thanks Ken, it can be confusing and this was concise and helpful

Ok, the description made sense, but I guess I've not seen it in action. I have an eTrex Legend HCX and it doesnt seem to "take" routes built in mapsource or basecamp. Is that why I've never used anything other than waypoints?

Ok, the description made sense, but I guess I've not seen it in action. I have an eTrex Legend HCX and it doesnt seem to "take" routes built in mapsource or basecamp. Is that why I've never used anything other than waypoints?

I don't understand. I have an eTrex Legend HCx and it "takes" routes from Mapsource just fine. I tested it with two routes before typing this. Both were routes with multiple via points. One went to half a dozen different places in town. The other went more than half way across the continent, from here to San Antonio.

After creating them I connected the eTrex, used the Transfer menu to "Send To Device", selected the eTrex, ticked "Routes" and they transferred just fine.

Then I went to "Routes" in the Main Menu on the eTrex and they were listed. I checked both of them and once they recalculated they were the same as in Mapsource.

If you check the specs on Garmin's web site you'll see that the eTrex Legend HCx can store up to 50 multipoint routes.

Is there anything I can do to help you figure out how to transfer routes to the eTrex?

...ken...

So I just saw an note on another board about the demise of Mapsource. So I downloaded Base camp to give it a try. Sigh...

I fully realize that I have a lot of time on Mapsoruce and almost no time on Base Camp... but all I have to say is "Really?"

my workflow on basecamp is a lot slower.

Hopefully Mapsource will be at least minimally supported with future map updates and bug fixes.

I couldn't agree more! Very frustrating and a huge step backwards based on what I'm seeing.

1. The first thing I see is the 'library'. For the life of me I cannot understand the usefulness of this. I have files organized in folders named to correspond to events, locations and years containing routes and tracks that now have to be imported and the organization is lost or at best has to be recreated in the library.

2. If I change the profile or properties of the profile (prefer roads for instance) I get a warning that it is going to recalculate all the routes in the collection because the profile has changed. It seems to be saved automatically because when I close I'm not prompted to save. In fact there is no save file choice. How can I operate on one specific route and not the whole folder? I am used to playing around with different choices in a route, seeing what effect they have on overall time and distance and then closing the file and not saving if I don't like the results and just want to get back to my starting point. Seems in BC any changes are immediately incorporated with no chance to get back to ground zero.

3. The details available in the route properties and the ability to add points and modify routes from here in Mapsource is going to be sorely missed.

4. What happened to waypoint categories? I have a lot of time invested in this and use it extensively to plan routes.

5. The data like length, time etc that was available at a glance in the user data panel of MS is gone. You have to open the properties to even see the length of a route or track.

This is all based on an hour of playing with BC but it doesn't look promising at this point. Many people use your products to do much more than point A to point B by the fastest route and need the ability to shape and control how the route is created at a finer level of control than BC is allowing. All the right click functionality of MS seems to be lost for instance.

Enough for now. I'll play with it more later.

Sad MS user
John

1. The first thing I see is the 'library'. For the life of me I cannot understand the usefulness of this. I have files organized in folders named to correspond to events, locations and years containing routes and tracks that now have to be imported and the organization is lost or at best has to be recreated in the library.

2. If I change the profile or properties of the profile (prefer roads for instance) I get a warning that it is going to recalculate all the routes in the collection because the profile has changed. It seems to be saved automatically because when I close I'm not prompted to save. In fact there is no save file choice. How can I operate on one specific route and not the whole folder? I am used to playing around with different choices in a route, seeing what effect they have on overall time and distance and then closing the file and not saving if I don't like the results and just want to get back to my starting point. Seems in BC any changes are immediately incorporated with no chance to get back to ground zero.

3. The details available in the route properties and the ability to add points and modify routes from here in Mapsource is going to be sorely missed.

4. What happened to waypoint categories? I have a lot of time invested in this and use it extensively to plan routes.

5. The data like length, time etc that was available at a glance in the user data panel of MS is gone. You have to open the properties to even see the length of a route or track.

Hi John, thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated.

I'll try to answer each point.

1. Whenever you import a file, a new folder for it will be automatically created. You are right, if you have it all organized in specific directories and files, then that will take some time to get imported. But once you are done with it, you will not have to open and look for files anymore. All your data will be right there. We are working on further refinement of the folders, making organization easier, and improve performance for large databases.

2. If you select the custom profile in the route properties, you can adjust the route settings per route. Then changes to the general profiles will not affect routes with custom profiles. BaseCamp actually allows custum route settings on a per-route basis, something that MapSource does not offer.

3. That is something we are currently working on, this should make it into a not too distant feature release.

4. That is something that we always felt caused more trouble than it's worth. That's because they are not consistent between our apps and our devices. As soon as we have a way to transfer categories correctly (without forcing the user to specify the exact same categories twice, on device and in our software) we will look into putting this in BC. Whoever feels strongly about waypoint categories, speak up and we might reconsider this stance.

5. Hit Ctrl-Tab to switch to the data view, select the appropriate filter (route, track etc.) and you will see that data.

Map program features for motorcyclists

FALAGAR asked about map program features that would be especially good for motorcyclists.

Since a lot of motorcycling is done for pleasure, away from cities and population centers, I'd like to ask for this: two separate controls for "zoom level" and "detail level," each of which can be controlled through its full range independently. Without this, rural areas often look like they have no roads at all until you zoom in so far you can't see where the roads actually go.

Even when I use the "max detail" setting in MapSource, the program still has a built-in decision about which data set to use based on the zoom level. This is usually set so it's good for urban areas. Out in the boonies where all roads are "minor," you often can't see any roads at all until you zoom in so far you can't see where the roads actually go.

You can see what I'm talking about at http://www.bestbits.org/map_programs.htm where I posted pictures from three programs showing the same area of northwestern California. MapSource and Google Maps show almost no roads, while an old DeLorme product from 1998 really delivers the goods.

With a modern computer (fast CPU, lots of memory), I should be able to ask the map program to use draw "all the roads" while still zooming out far enough to see where the roads go.

Thanks for listening.

APRATT844, thank you for your feedback.

This is actually #1 in the wishlist thread. It's something we'd love to do, but we are somewhat limited there in the way our map data is structured.

We'll hope to do something about this in the future.