POIs, Waypoints, Via-Points, Shaping Points 101

Former Member
Former Member
The concepts are quite simple. It's the method of distinguishing one from the other that is likely quite subtle in the code.

POI - A formal Point Of Interest. An entry in the internal POI database with a name, location and usually other information associated with it.

Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

Via Point - A point used to create a multipoint route, e.g. Go from Point A to Point B via some other arbitrary point(s) that you will designate. If your personal navigation device supports multipoint routing, the via point can be a POI, an existing waypoint/favorite or any other form of location that is searchable on your device, e.g. address, intersection/junction, custom POI, etc. In most cases, to use something as a via point it must already exist in one of the devices' searchable databases.

Shaping Point - In Mapsource, to "shape" a route to go exactly where you want there are a couple of methods. Just as with the personal navigation device, you can edit the route's properties to insert Via points (these are not shaping points although they do serve a similar purpose). You can also just use the route tool to click on spots on the map to force the shape of a route. When you do that, you are using a location that is not already in one of the searchable location databases. Mapsource does not force you to add these points to any of the formal databases. It simply inserts the actual coordinates invisibly into the route. These are shaping points.

Shaping points occur in another, automatic, fashion as well. Even when you only designate a two-point route, e.g. go from Point A to Point B, there will usually be multiple places, usually intersections, where a change in direction is required. When building the route, the personal navigation device (or Mapsource/Basecamp) will automatically include all of these points in the route.

To easily illustrate this, you can create a two-point route in Mapsource by clicking on a Point A and a Point B that will require a few turns to get from one to the other. Now export the route to a GPX file and take a look at it with Notepad or your favorite text editor. You will see that, in addition to the starting point and the ending point, there will be a bunch of other points <rtept> in the file to control all the turns.

I apologize if you already knew all that. Perhaps it will be helpful to others with inquiring minds. :)

...ken...
  • Sample route with working (not displayed and without alerting) shaping points

    I don't think the Montana supports this. I probably won't be in the next firmware release. Please contact product support and request that feature. The more people ask, the higher the chances it might get implemented.

    Hello Falagar,

    thank you for this information.

    I am using the Montana 650 with Firmware 4.70. At first I thought the Montana would not be able to handle Shaping points. Now I have created one route with CN Europe NT 2013.3 and it works fine with the shaping points.

    This route first is showing up 8 via points (10 points in total) and a direct route then it obviously recalculates the route and eliminates 5 of the 8 via points. These 5 points are marked as shaping points in the gpx-file but they are placed onto cross-ways. The lasting 3 via points (also marked as shaping points into the gpx-file) are not placed onto cross-ways but directly on roads. Therefore they are threated like via points. Please be advised that all points in this route are set to alarm in basecamp.

    I was not able to repeat such a route but I am sure the attached sample route that is working on a Montana 650 will help the R&D-Department to reproduce this routing behaviour.

    Please find attached the route into the gpx-file for testing.

    Regards and thanks

    Canario



    Edit: Please find attached two screen-shots on how it works and looks like.

    1. The initial screen with all 10 Waypoints and 8 via-points:


    2. The screen after a quick recalculation:
  • POI - A formal Point Of Interest. An entry in the internal POI database with a name, location and usually other information associated with it.

    Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

    Via Point - A point used to create a multipoint route, e.g. Go from Point A to Point B via some other arbitrary point(s) that you will designate. If your personal navigation device supports multipoint routing, the via point can be a POI, an existing waypoint/favorite or any other form of location that is searchable on your device, e.g. address, intersection/junction, custom POI, etc. In most cases, to use something as a via point it must already exist in one of the devices' searchable databases.

    Shaping Point - In Mapsource, to "shape" a route to go exactly where you want there are a couple of methods. Just as with the personal navigation device, you can edit the route's properties to insert Via points (these are not shaping points although they do serve a similar purpose). You can also just use the route tool to click on spots on the map to force the shape of a route. When you do that, you are using a location that is not already in one of the searchable location databases. Mapsource does not force you to add these points to any of the formal databases. It simply inserts the actual coordinates invisibly into the route. These are shaping points.


    Would be good to state what are limits for these types of waypoints/viapoints/shapingpoints in typical Garmins GPSr. Usually that prevents most users from making the route they wanted, because MS/BC do not have the same limits like the GPSr. In my Oregon300 this is 50 per route and AFAIK it's the same for any type of routing point. Correct?
  • ...just stumbled over this thread as I was looking for an explanation for the new user POI function in BC. I found no explanation how to use it. Any suggestions/pointers?
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 12 years ago
    Hello BCENNI,

    I don't know what the limits are and I think they vary. The numbers I see most often are 50 for formal routing points, eg. any combination of POIs, waypoints, and Via points, and 250 for shaping points.

    If anyone has experience with different numbers for their units they could post them here.

    ...ken...
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 12 years ago
    My experience is that the number of waypoint's/via's is fixed per route (e.g. 50 for autoroutes in many models). As you said the number of shaping points seems to vary according to the model, firmware version etc but the number per route depends on the number of routes (i.e. it's not a fixed number). As I recall (haven't done any tests for years) the number is in the thousands (~4,000) for my 76CSx.

    I'll add that I've never had an issue with whatever limits a particular model has. Yes I've created long multi-day routes but I've typically broken them up into smaller "driving sections" anyway.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 12 years ago
    It seems that some newer units are experiencing much smaller limits on shaping points. This comes from a huge thread on the subject of the Montana over on the ADVRider forums. That's a forum for motorcycle riders who use these devices to set up routes that take them off the beaten track. As we have seen many times in here, that requires many via points and shaping points to force the autorouting software to ignore the "shortest route"/"fastest route" fundamentals.

    In the testing over there it appears that a route containing more than about 250 user-inserted shaping points will work in "direct" mode but fail if you select any profile that uses autorouting.

    ...ken...
  • Hello Falagar,

    thank you for this information.

    I am using the Montana 650 with Firmware 4.70. At first I thought the Montana would not be able to handle Shaping points. Now I have created one route with CN Europe NT 2013.3 and it works fine with the shaping points.

    This route first is showing up 8 via points (10 points in total) and a direct route then it obviously recalculates the route and eliminates 5 of the 8 via points. These 5 points are marked as shaping points in the gpx-file but they are placed onto cross-ways. The lasting 3 via points (also marked as shaping points into the gpx-file) are not placed onto cross-ways but directly on roads. Therefore they are threated like via points. Please be advised that all points in this route are set to alarm in basecamp.

    I was not able to repeat such a route but I am sure the attached sample route that is working on a Montana 650 will help the R&D-Department to reproduce this routing behaviour.

    Please find attached the route into the gpx-file for testing.

    Regards and thanks

    Canario



    Edit: Please find attached two screen-shots on how it works and looks like.

    1. The initial screen with all 10 Waypoints and 8 via-points:


    2. The screen after a quick recalculation:

    Sorry, I attached a not working file.

    The following file should work as described above:



    I would appreciate if someone could double-check the file on his Montana unit.

    Thanks
    Canario
  • I confirm that your route behaves the same on my Montana 650. When loading the route in the Montana route manager it first shows as your picture 80.jpg with 8 blue flags, then recalculates and end up with 5 blue flags as your picture 88.jpg. The Montana calculation seems to drop route points and flags from its display if not needed for routing? I don't know if that is a general behaviour.

    In the original route all points were listed as via points when opened as a GML-file. I imported the route back from the Montana and opened it as a GML-file. All except start and end points were now listed as shaping points.

    It is my experience that the non-alert function in BaseCamp makes no difference on the Montana regarding flags and announcements. I get flags and announcements on all via points as I drive regardless of the point designation in BaseCamp.
  • Thank for double-checking and confirming the behaviour.

    I don't think that the Montana drops route points and flags from its display if not needed for routing, because the Route I attached yesterday is the only Route that shows this behaviour.

    I can confirm your experience that the non-alert function in BaseCamp makes no difference on the Montana regarding flags and announcements. Only with this one route 3 points are really "non-alert-waypoints".

    Unfortunately I can't remember the way I created this route. It might be that I created it on a Zumo 350, I had tested some weeks ago.

    Canario
  • I just tried a little bit with routes and shaping points on the Montana. The interesting thing about the above mentioned route is, that it does not show all points of the route even there is not one single shaping point in the whole route.

    Canario