Base Camp survival guide and how to do 128GB of maps.

For years I've been using Base Camp and fighting all its quirks and limitations. For the last few weeks ive been setting up a new 64st because I had lost my old one. So while its all fresh in my mind I thought I would help others and go over what ive done.

I explore abandoned mines from the 1880-1920's all over arizona. There are 10,000+ of them and this takes me to stunning vistas and on awesome adventures. I go all over the state. Normally there are no roads and barely discernible old mining roads. I dont go to the obvious and easy ones, I go to ones no one has been to in 100 years. This means its a real adventure as there is no one else who has been to these in most cases. No guides to get me there. Many times these are not even marked on topos. I get the locations from a very old book kept by the AZ mining historical records people. Many times the locations are vague. In over 10 years of doing this ive discovered I need top grade topo maps and hi-rez sat maps. The 64st loaded with City Navigator, the Topo US 24k maps, Birdseye Topos, Birdseye hi-rez sat images and some GIS maps and GPX files of mine locations are ALL needed in almost every trip, literally switching between them and doing different combos as needed. The sat images are really useful as you can see whats on the other side of a hill without going over it. The 24K topos and Birdseye topos are killer useful in 3D to hike to the sites. Im working on getting a GIS map of the geology into the 64st as well. As my adventures take me all over the state, I never know exactly where im going next, I need all the maps / images / POI's, GISs and more for THE WHOLE STATE loaded at once. I cant stop and load maps as i go as there is *ZERO* cell service where I go.

So, this presents a serious set of issues. I need HUGE amounts of room to put all this stuff in. I currently have a 128GB SD card and its full. Im thinking about going to 256GB. I will know in the weeks ahead.

128GBs is clearly unsupported In EVERY way by Garmin. Most here might consider this is not possible. WELL it works great. It does take FOREVER for the 64st to boot, but, once booted its the whole state with lots of maps all instantly available.

Before I get into how to do this,,, I want to complain. It takes 3-4 WEEKS of download time to get a whole state worth of Birdseye images. Thats running 24/7. Its a Garmin birdseye server speed limitation - its a cloud based big time provider - so its Garmin not paying for faster speeds for users. . Also it requires incredible patience to draw a thousand boxes to download images in birdseye. The hardware needs to support large format SD cards and needs to support FATex. Also it needs a faster interface to read the cards. If I could draw one big box for the state and the server did more then 1Mbps and FATex was supported that would have saved me 4 weeks of work of 3 hours a night and 4 weeks of 24/7 downloading. It would reduce everything to a few hours of downloading and 30 mins of actual work on my part. Currently Base Camp is stuck in the 80's, Its like trying to use a TRS-80 to do Google Earth.

Im going to have to do this guide in steps as I cant do this all in this one post.

So im going to start with prepping the computer, mem card, tools needed and a general overview of requirements.

Part 1.. Before you begin.
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First up. Resign yourself to a LONG process. This will take a month.

Second. You will not be able to use your device for a month as it will need to stay hooked up to the computer the whole time as each file will be checked for activation as each one downloads by physically checking the attached device. Once you start - you cant reliably stop and restart. You gotta go all in one shot.

Third. You really need a separate computer. One running XP ( BaseCamp was designed for XP ) or Windows 7. More modern versions of windows and all apple versions are more buggy and not worth the risk of having to start over because of corrupt files. As Basecamp is buggy its best that NOTHING else is installed on the machine and you do nothing else with it while its doing Birdseye downloads.

I bought a Tecra M9 from ebay and then bought a 1TB hard drive and installed a retail Win 7 Pro on it with NOTHING else. I HIGHLY recommend setting up a seperate computer just for this use. You MUST have AT LEAST TWICE the HD space as the largest card you intend to fill. This is because when you load the device it creates a additional set of files on C ( no matter where you put the database and/or add shortcuts to ) that will double your overall set of files. So you need at least 512GB of free C: space. I find a dedicated cheap but reliable laptop is perfect for this.

PUT EVERYTHING ON C: Dont use shortcuts to other drives or change your database. Best to just create a huge C: thats empty.

Ive NEVER been able to get everything downloaded and loaded from a computer that was in use for other things. Base Camp is buggy and can lock up and you can get weird issues. A clean install of windows and then a clean install of NOTHING but basecamp DOES WORK PERFECTLY. As long as you follow my additional steps I will outline as I go. So I CANNOT EMPHASIS ENOUGH THE USE OF A DEDICATED COMPUTER WITH A NEWLY INSTALLED WIN 7 or XP.

Order a good quality USB cable. Ive found the ones that have come from Garmin to be less then ideal. Shorter is better, and get one thats expensive and high quality. You dont want to fight with a bad cable.

I use high end SD cards. I dont think they really help read speed, but maybe. They do help in write speed when loading them as we will load them via plugging them into the computer to load them. I have used a number of the 128GB cards, but have not yet tried the 256GB cards. The Toshiba Tecra M9 laptop has a SD card slot we will use later to load rather then loading it in the Garmin device. https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-...microsd-uhs-ii

You will need to PLUG IN ETHERNET. *DO NOT* use wifi !. The use of wifi will lead to corrupted downloads and a lot of extra hassle. So plan on locating the computer next to your router for a month and plugging it in. You may need to buy a Ethernet cable.

A loss of internet during the entire month, even if its just for a second could lead to corrupt files and base camp getting confuzed and even having to start again. So be aware you will need UNINTERRUPTED WIRED Internet connectivity for a month.

Base camp Birdseye downloads are seriously effected by latency. Ive found that DSL ( AT&T ) connections, or cable supplied internet with spiky latency and packet loss will cause all manner of corrupt downloads. So you need to be sure your internet connection is latency stable. Base Camp has a time out for each of its thousands of files per download. Its not very long. If they time out it will not retry automatically and will just skip the files prompting you to retry later. So you need to be aware of the quality of your internet connection before you begin because if your connection has any packet loss or latency jumps you may NEVER be able to get a good set of downloads. A good way to monitor your connection is to use Multiping and set its interval to 1 second and let it run for a few days and see how things look. If its a nice flat line and it has no red you should be good to go. This is a HUGE issue that caused me months of work till I figured it out. DSL = NO WAY.

I also recommend a external USB hard drive so you can backup your base camp data. After a month of effort you dont want to loose it. So a good external 1 or 2 TB drive is a good idea.

So.. The above stuff needs to all get settled out and ready before we begin.

Once you have all the above worked out, download and install some things.

1. Garmin Express
2. Base Camp
3. MiniTool Partition Wizard FREE edition. You could also buy the least expensive version. I did. You need this to format the 128GB SD Micro card to FAT32.
4. Multiping - optional to keep track of your latency and packet loss to spot issue. https://www.multiping.com/

Start up Garmin express, register and update your device. Start up Base Camp and get that all hooked into your Garmin account and happy while plugged into your device. You can even try a few Birdseye downloads to test things out. You can load your device and get a feel for how all that works. DO NOT TRY AND DO MORE THEN ONE THING AT ONCE. So first plug in your device and WAIT for Base Camp to read it all into its files. You will see bards loading until its all finished. ONLY THEN should you start a BIRDSEYE DOWNLOAD. Then WAIT FOR IT TO FINISH ALL DOWNLOADS BEFORE YOU LOAD THE DEVICE.

Your 128 GB mem card will not work yet, so dont install yet.

Thats it for this first installment of how to use Base Camp to load 128GB of maps. Once all the above is ready to go, your ready to start loading things. BUT. Its very specific things in order and you gotta follow the steps for it all to work.

I will continue this in the next day or so.

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COMPLAINT.. ALL the INSANITY LEVEL COMPUTER NINJA SKILLS REQUIRED ABOVE WOULD BE UNNESSARY *IF* GARMIN SUPPORTED exFAT, HAD A MODERN VERSION OF BASE CAMP COMPILED IN THIS DECADE. PAID FOR FASTER SERVERS AND SUPPORTED LARGER SELECTION SETS ON BIRDSEYE.

  • I suspect very few people have this problem. Maybe, it's only one person. No software can work for all possible uses.

    The Birdseye stuff appears to be intended for a much more limited use.

    Maybe, you are using the wrong tool.

    https://www.gearthblog.com/blog/arch...h_offline.html

    http://www.cacheupnb.com/resources/g...atlas-creator/

    https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/267778-alternative-to-birdseye-andor-mobile-atlas-creator/

    http://www.okmap.org/en/okmapDesktopFeatures.aspx

    https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/234246/viewing-google-earth-or-google-maps-satellite-imagery-on-gps-handhelds
  • Sorry but I seem to have none of the issues you have, apart from an (very) occasional lock up. Maybe you have a system issue.

    Caveat to that is that I'm not downloading masses of BirdsEye, nor using sd cards over 32 GB


    That is exactly why im having these issues, im downloading massive numbers of Birdseye images and using cards over 32GB. Thats the subject in my post and the reason i posted.

    Ive reproduced this issue on EVERY machine across a wide range of windows platforms over a period of years. I have provided completely reproducible bugs anyone can do above. You, and others here, have been very clear that no one from Garmin looks at these threads and these issues will never be addressed. So I wanted to post a fool proof method that others may use in the future to download what i consider a completly reasonable amount of maps. I cant be the only one who needs a full states worth of maps loaded at once.

    Part of my point in posting is that there are uses for downloading a lot of birdseye images. In fact,. I would venture to guess that given the option, if it was easy, most people who pay for Birdseye would draw a very large box and download a whole state at a time. Its the software limitations that restrict that use.
  • I suspect very few people have this problem. Maybe, it's only one person. No software can work for all possible uses.

    The Birdseye stuff appears to be intended for a much more limited use.

    Maybe, you are using the wrong tool.

    https://www.gearthblog.com/blog/arch...h_offline.html

    http://www.cacheupnb.com/resources/g...atlas-creator/

    https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/267778-alternative-to-birdseye-andor-mobile-atlas-creator/

    http://www.okmap.org/en/okmapDesktopFeatures.aspx

    https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/234246/viewing-google-earth-or-google-maps-satellite-imagery-on-gps-handhelds


    Im using Birdseye as intended. I just had no idea when i bought it that I would be so limited in what i could do with it. I dont remember any limitations during the purchase process ?

    ANYONE who would like to have a whole state worth of sat images + topo + City Navigator will have exactly the same issues I have because they will need to download 1000 231MB blocks of Base Camp drawn downloads from a server that is capped at 1Mbps using a download protocol from 1990.
  • Thank you for the links to other products. Those are good to have in this thread for others to explore as well. I was trying to stick with Garmin products, but, you have a point that Garmin is behind on this type of application. I still need support for 128GB+ SD cards tho, so, Garmin still needs to come into the modern world. Having no experience with how massive custom KMZ files work in a 64st, I cant say if these are better or worse then using Birdseye or what limitations there might be that im currently unaware of.
  • You haven't really made the case that you need the whole state on the device.

    You could split the state into sections (maybe, with some overlap) and download what you need from a laptop/whatever or use separate cards).

    The kmz files might not be able to be "massive".
  • I do have a new limitation to report. After adding a bit more to my downloads I cannot do a backup. It says "A exception has occurred". As I have WAY exceeded the normal uses for Base Camp, I assume I hit some limit in creating a huge backup file. So, no backup appears possible once you exceed some really large dataset size. There is a upper limit to its backup file size.

    Is there some disclaimer I missed on limitations of use for Base Camp and Birdseye ? I have also now looked at disclaimers for the 64st, Birdseye and base camp. I cant find where it says its limited to FAT32 or 32GB in product web pages or on its box. There does not seem to be any disclaimers about size limitations on the Birdseye legal stuff either. From what I can find as a consumer I would expect to be able to use any SD card regardless of size with no limitations. It might be legally wise for Garmin to update its product page specs for the 64st with FAT32 / 32 GB limitation.

    https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/map-download
    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/140024#specs

    The Birdseye product page never mentions any limitations, so, I guess I am a bit upset as this appears to be misleading.
    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/70144

    The only reference I can find to the actual limitations is a support article that appears to not be linked on any of the product pages.
    https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-US/faq/content/UsL6MuMMCM8PpgAhUUCqp7

    Over many years ive just become used to the limits of Base Camp and its bugs. However now taking a step back and looking more closely at how Birdseye and base camp are marketed I see there might need to be changes to the current Garmin pages.

    Am I really the only user thats ever bought Birdseye and then tried to download a large area ? I think not.

    Interesting looking at Garmin. They sound like they are looking for the right type of people to create base Camp 2. This was posted 2 days ago.
    https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/software-engineer-map-technology-at-garmin-international-512169447?trkInfo=searchKeywordString%3AGarmin%2CsearchLocationString%3A%252C%2B%2Cvertical%3Ajobs%2CpageNum%3A0%2Cposition%3A2%2CMSRPsearchId%3A2591114b-3f80-4d1e-bc74-d6e9678ee129&refId=2591114b-3f80-4d1e-bc74-d6e9678ee129&trk=jobs_jserp_job_listing_text

    Ive located some of the key people at Garmin who might have some responsibility for Base Camp development and maintenance. I have emailed them with a link to this thread.

  • You haven't really made the case that you need the whole state on the device.

    You could split the state into sections (maybe, with some overlap) and download what you need from a laptop/whatever or use separate cards).

    The kmz files might not be able to be "massive".


    I dont want to fool with downloading anything or taking a laptop with me. I dont want to swap cards out in the field. I simply want the enture state ( or more ) on my device with all maps I might need readily available. This sounds very reasonable to me ?
  • Ive noticed that Garmin has recently started looking for someone in a capacity to maybe make Base Camp 2.

    https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/s...b_listing_text

    Ive also located key people at Garmin and sent them this thread. Not that they would respond, but, I want upper level people to be aware of issues. The key people are easy to locate using Linkedin and Garmin's email format is easy to guess.

    I also noticed that there are no disclaimers anywhere on the product pages for the 64st ( 32GB limit or FAT32 limit ) or on the Birdseye pages. The only reference I can find on these limitations is a support article that does not appear to be linked to any product spec pages. The product spec pages simply state SD card support. This should get corrected. There is also no disclaimer on any of the retail boxes of this limitation.
  • Looking over Garmin im impressed with its size of its software engineering staff. No doubt its professional products for avaition and marine are a big chunk of its work, however, they CLEARLY have the people needed to crank out a modern Base Camp and fix all the issues and limitations. It was interesting to see they have a large component of thier operations in Phoenix where im based. Maybe I could take them out on a adventure and show them what fun their products can be. Maybe I can show them first hand the limits of the Base Camp software and help them work towards a better solution.
  • Interesting. None of my emails to Garmin bounced. I sent 17 people who looked related to outdoor products and software engineering management for those products a link to this thread. Garmin makes extensive use of Linkedin which makes finding the right people pretty easy. I hold out no hope of course anything will happen, but, at least ive done the best i could to make the right people aware.