Waypoint Creation and Modification Date and Symbol

Well I've never really looked at those dates but, having checked, mine are very different so unsure why yours are as you describe.

As for symbols, originally MapSource and the devices it was initially designed for matched fairly well but with the advent of many new devices aimed at different markets slowly it and BaseCamp diverged. I can't see it being resolved, it is what it is, although there are some tweaks you can do to help overcome certain issues on certain devices.

I am using Basecamp 4.6.2 with Windows 10. After transferring 580 waypoints from Basecamp to my Nuvi 2598, I took a trip and added three new waypoints. Then I connected the Nuvi to my computer and opened Basecamp. All 583 waypoints have the same creation and modification date listed in Basecamp; namely the current computer date and time. Therefore a time sort to find the three new waypoints is useless. The "Date Created" and "Date Modified" columns are meaningless.

The waypoint symbol is also a problem. Any waypoint copied from Basecamp to the Nuvi and then back to basecamp from the Nuvi has its symbol changed in Basecamp.

In other words, Garmin software (Basecamp) and hardware (Nuvi 2598 and also my Oregon 450t) handle waypoint dates and symbols very poorly. Basecamp and its predecessor Mapsource have lots of nice features. But the lack of coordination between Garmin hardware and software is a serious problem that Garmin should quickly addresses.

After much frustration trying to replace the STUPID green icons, I have discovered many things about the newer Nuvi's by putting my 2598 (same model I see) into USB Mass Storage Mode and doing some exploring.

1. ANY waypoint stored to Internal Memory using BaseCamp will be written to Current.GPX, along with current position, any routes, and generally speaking any and everything that can be stuffed into a GPX file.
2. If you create a route in BaseCamp and transfer it to the Nuvi 2589, it too will be stuffed into the Current GPX, but instead of using existing waypoints in the routing information, BaseCamp will simply create a new Waypoints(n).gpx file (no parenthesis, just a number in place of n), and you'll wind up with duplicate waypoints, e.g. Home, Home1, Home11, Home111, for each route that references Home. Add another route, and you get another Routes(n).gpx file, and more duplicate waypoints. Any guesses what happens to those duplicates? Yup, they get recorded in Current.gpx as well.
3. My old Nuvi 255w (which suffered the effects of being dropped once or twice too many times) was fairly easy to manage, and only created duplicate waypoints if I intentionally copied them. It would also allow me to store custom waypoint symbols, and then select them in BaseCamp or Mapsource or GSAK, or whatever I was loading data points with so I could have different icons that actually made sense when I saw them on the screen.
4. The only solution I've found to the symbol issue is to embed them into a POI file. POI files, unfortunately, cannot be edited from the screen, meaning any POI entered cannot be adjusted. The bypass for this limitation is to save the POI as a waypoint then edit it. Problem there is that the waypoint doesn't inherit the POI data. Only the coordinates and name. I.E. completely useless.
5. Garmin has the new Nuvi's so locked down that they're really not user friendly any more. I don't own a boat, so why would I need marine icons? I don't have an airplane, so why would I need Aviation symbols? If I choose to go hunting or fishing, I have a GPSMAP 60CSx for that purpose, so have full access to that as an application of it's own, but my primary use for both devices is Geocaching.
6. Yes, Geocaches can be loaded into the 2589, but, EVERY one of them is a little treasure chest. There are several types of geocache, and Garmin even supports the different types on the hand-held units, particularly more advanced models than the 60CSx.
7. The 2589 keeps a Position.gpx file, which I originally thought would have been solely for current position data, so that Current.gpx would not get fragmented and have problems. I was WAY off base. The Position.gpx file is for two purposes. A.) To record position when the unit is powered down so that it can more quickly find satellites when powered back up. B.) Help me remember where I parked. I'm getting pretty old, but not so much that I forget where I park, yet. Besides that, I drive a 2014 Ford F-150 4x4 SuperCab with a 6' bed and a contractor shell on that, painted Vermillion red. I had no idea what Vermillion red was until I got the truck, and caused a shortage of fire trucks in the area. This thing is HUGE, and very easy to spot in a parking lot. Besides, if the 2589 is in the truck, it won't do me much good if it remembers where the truck is, and I don't, now will it? Again, I have a hand-held to help me solve that problem, and use the Mark feature on it when I step out of my vehicle to have a hike. Tracks turned on (what I call cookie crumbs) is a bonus too.
8. Mentioning tracks, the 2589 also records the current track in the Current.GPX file as well, instead of keeping a separate track file like every other unit I've had does.
9. By nature of the beast, the waypoints are time stamped when created in the device. I have verified that by dissecting the Current.GPX file after copying some points to it via BaseCamp. HOWEVER, I've created a separate GPX file on the expansion card using GSAK, and the time stamps on the data is original. Once any waypoint is accessed in that GPX, though, it gets copied (with a new time stamp) into Current.gpx. Why was that necessary? Too many file handles? Help me understand this crippleware.

What was Garmin's point or intention of putting EVERYTHING in one file?

Don't even get me started on what happens if you transfer a route from BaseCamp to the Nuvi 2589, especially if you don't strip off shaping points. Then, if you DO strip the shaping points, despite having the same maps and same points as BaseCamp, and being configured the same way (fastest time or shortest distance, etc), the Nuvi will NOT route the trip the same way as BaseCamp. In fact, it seemed to prefer going around all the geocache data I loaded. It did it to me THREE times in Ireland, and I was nearly ready to pitch the thing out the window and just use the 60CSx. It was far more reliable with the routing.

So, please Garmin, at least give the few of us out there with a little computer savvy a way to configure the units for different storage methods. Now, I have to remember to copy my track files off the unit before 20 get written and it laps back over. This can be a relatively short time in my line of work.

I cannot say that I am pleased with the 2589 at all, other than the Lift Time Maps and Traffic (which is really hit and miss). That's a lot of money to pay for something so crippled.

All nuvis work the same way. BaseCamp, like MapSource before it, sends data to your nuvi in a file normally named temp.gpx

When you boot your nuvi that file is merged into data already on your nuvi and a new current.gpx file written. That file is a one way copy, you can delete it and it won't have any effect.

This works for the vast majority of nuvi users. For those like yourself that want more control the solution is simple. Copy your data from the nuvi into BaseCamp. Then delete everything off the nuvi. Once you're happy that's done and you've made the edits to your data send it all back.

Incidentally I don't have any issues with my nuvis following routes I send to my nuvi, and I send a route 'as is' without making any adjustment. Why you're having issues I have no idea. It may be time for you to do a master reset as that generally resolves any strange behaviour.

The symbol issue is quite annoying to say the least. There are a number of standard icons that should be on every nuvi (automotive). Common ones include fuel, restaurants, hotels (lodging). 99% of routes created in base camp will use some combination of these waypoint symbols.

With my drive[stupid] 60lmt, all of these symbols get changed to orange flags. Even my old nuvi 7x5 and 14xx displayed the correct symbols.

@RoadRoach58, current.gpx gets regenerated each time the device is connected to the computer.

Your nuvi does have all those symbols you mention :confused:

Yes, it has those symbols, but it still continues to use a flag symbol. This is even the case for routes created within trip planner on the device itself.

Had a brief conversation with garmin support this morning.

Apparently this flag nonsense is by design in trip planner. According to the rep, even the zumo models display flag symbols for points of interest defined in a route.

I understand having to support numerous symbols, but common standard symbols should be defined and displayed accordingly. Otherwise, what's the point of being able to even edit a poi symbol on the unit itself.

I understand your perspective. But there is actually some logic to Garmin's design in this case.

For any given POI there are actually two icons associated, each to be displayed in a specific situation.

The icon you refer to as the common standard icon, or a custom icon you may have substituted, will display as you manually view the map or search for things. These are conditions where it really matters that you be able to distinguish, for example, the bank from the ice cream stand from the motorcycle shop.

The flag icon will display for all POIs in a route. The thinking is that you want the POIs you have included in a route to stand out from any POIs around them that are not part of the route.

If you look at your route you will see that if there are other POIs near one that you included in your route, they still display their normal icons. Only the one in your route has the flag substituted for its normal icon. And if you kill the route you should see the POI in question return to its normal icon.

This may not work perfectly for the way everyone wishes to view their GPS device but there has clearly been some thought put into it. Since Garmin, like most companies, doesn't waste time and resources on doing things just for giggles, I have to think it was done in response to customer requests to somehow make POIs in a route stand out from other nearby POIs, especially in places with a high concentration of POIs.

...ken...

@kganshirt

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. That is a perspective I hadn't considered. My unit is configured not to display poi's. I can see how it may get confusing as to what's in the route and what's just on the map. One way of implementing this is to have different backgrounds for route poi's vs nonroute poi's.

I suppose it comes down to allowing more granular control and configuration of the units. This has always been an issue with garmin. I realize they must appeal to the masses. Even so, a unit can have a basic and advanced modes operation. The former for users who don't need/care for this granular control.

@kganshirt

I suppose it comes down to allowing more granular control and configuration of the units. This has always been an issue with garmin. I realize they must appeal to the masses. Even so, a unit can have a basic and advanced modes operation. The former for users who don't need/care for this granular control.

Yes, for those of us who like finer control it can be a bit frustrating.

Interestingly, it's the "control" issue that keeps me with Garmin for standalone GPS devices, and keeps me using standalone GPS devices rather than my smartphone for navigation. I have choices of devices with feature combinations that I can't get from anyone else. And with respect to maps, symbols, and similar stuff, I can do so much more with Garmin technology that there isn't even a close second place choice.

I have to sometimes force myself to remember this whenever I encounter one of the many things Garmin does that has us shaking our heads. :)

...ken...