Why is BaseCamp not used to sell Garmin Products?

If you go to the product page for any Garmin GPS product, you might find BaseCamp mention one time as being file compatible. I thought it might have something to do with uploading routes being a problem but Garmin fixed that with the Montana and Nuvi 2013 line. BaseCamp lets you keep all you geo data in one spot, caches, POI, routes, etc. and in my opinion the number one reason to buy Garmin products. Can anyone speculate as to why Garmin is treating BaseCamp as a trade secret?

0 alandb over 11 years ago

Well, maybe one reason is that there is not universal agreement among Garmin customers with your assessment of BaseCamp. Although BaseCamp is far from perfect, I am thankful that Garmin provides the free program for managing GPS data across multiple devices.

0 Former Member over 11 years ago

I think you'll find that with automotive models (i.e. nuvi's) that the vast majority of users stick them on their dash/windshield/etc and never connect them to a computer. They may connect the unit a computer to update the maps since most units popup a message after some time. In short BaseCamp, or any other software, is of no interest to these people.

Motorcycle users (Zumo models) tend to plan their rides in advance so they do use BaseCamp or MapSource for that. The same applies to cyclists (Edge models).

As for outdoor models (for which BaseCamp was first developed) I'm not sure. Personally I don't create routes for my hikes since Garmin's maps only have a few trails in my area and those are only partially accurate. Now I do record tracks and import those into BaseCamp (and MapSource) so I can view statistical data (trail grade, time, heartrate etc).

Now BaseCamp (and MapSource) are both free and "advanced" users (that is those that actually want to use their devices to their full potential) tend to use one or both. However the "average" user probably doesn't.

0 PSEABOLT over 11 years ago

I think you'll find that with automotive models (i.e. nuvi's) that the vast majority of users stick them on their dash/windshield/etc and never connect them to a computer. They may connect the unit a computer to update the maps since most units popup a message after some time. In short BaseCamp, or any other software, is of no interest to these people.

I agree most nuvi users don't use BC but how would they know it is available. What would it hurt to give a description of BC in the 2013 Nuvi line manual and list it under features.

Motorcycle users (Zumo models) tend to plan their rides in advance so they do use BaseCamp or MapSource for that. The same applies to cyclists (Edge models).

True but I know cyclists and motorcyclists that have Garmin devices that don't use BC, I don't think they know it exists. I think RV's and driving vacationers plan almost as much as cyclists.

As for outdoor models (for which BaseCamp was first developed) I'm not sure. Personally I don't create routes for my hikes since Garmin's maps only have a few trails in my area and those are only partially accurate. Now I do record tracks and import those into BaseCamp (and MapSource) so I can view statistical data (trail grade, time, heartrate etc).

I like to create a track of the trail I am hiking in BC and check distance and elevation profile. GeoCaching is another outdoor activity that requires a GPS and BC does an excellent job of managing paperless geocaching. I think many GeoCachers use BC. It is simple and easy to use, works well and they don't have anything to whine about so they don't visit the forum much.

Now BaseCamp (and MapSource) are both free and "advanced" users (that is those that actually want to use their devices to their full potential) tend to use one or both. However the "average" user probably doesn't.

I think MapSource has always needed an advance user and getting BaseCamp maps on the computer is not for the novice. Prior to the Nuvi 2013 line, uploading a route that the GPS would follow, was impossible or requires an advance user depending on the Nuvi. However, with the Nuvi 2013 line, the novice user has the maps when the unit is plugged into the computer and dragging the route to the GPS will upload the route and the GPS will follow the BC route. Problem is I have never seen instructions with a GPS unit on using BC.

0 Former Member over 11 years ago

I think MapSource has always needed an advance user and getting BaseCamp maps on the computer is not for the novice. Prior to the Nuvi 2013 line, uploading a route that the GPS would follow, was impossible or requires an advance user depending on the Nuvi. However, with the Nuvi 2013 line, the novice user has the maps when the unit is plugged into the computer and dragging the route to the GPS will upload the route and the GPS will follow the BC route. Problem is I have never seen instructions with a GPS unit on using BC.

[OPINION]
I think the Garmin customers that do Trip Planning and actually manage their data have been using MapSource. The Mac customers were very happy to get rid of it. Windoze users on the other hand are deathly afraid to move off of MapSource because of the learning curve and (A) they can't get a handle on what to do with all of their old GDB/GPX files and/or (B) they can't figure out the really bad workflows associated with Win-BC -- I don't blame them. In all cases on the Windoze side there isn't much impetus to stop using MapSource when all of the Fora banter is in regards to how terrible Win-BC is to use.[/OPINION]

What I have found in my classes/seminars and online Q&A is that the vast majority of users refuse to read the HELP information -- which is the manual for BaseCamp -- nor have they looked at the video tutorials on YouTube.

But, I also blame Garmin for not providing a roadmap for migrating MapSource users to BaseCamp. I believe that the BaseCamp team thought that this was a "walk up and use" application. Unfortunately, users proved that to be an incorrect assumption.

It would be very interesting to know what the user demographics are in the eyes of Garmin. Hello, BaseCamp Team?

0 seilogramp over 11 years ago

Windoze? Haven't heard that in a while. :p

0 gssuv over 11 years ago

". . . also blame Garmin for not providing a roadmap for migrating MapSource users to BaseCamp. I believe that the BaseCamp team thought that this was a "walk up and use" application. Unfortunately, users proved that to be an incorrect assumption."

Yeah, I have to agree Basecamp is DEFINITELY not a "walk up and use" application. I certainly expect a learning curve with any new software I use but seldom can I recall such difficulty as with Basecamp in trying to learn a new program. I have diligently referred to Basecamp Help, watched the tutorials and videos numerous times. I have looked at other online Help sites such as this Garmin Forum and others, but after a little over a year of use I still have a LOT of trouble using Basecamp. Here are two examples, one from when I first started using Basecamp and the second, my most recent, and ongoing problem:

1. When I first started using Basecamp I watched the video tutorials on how to create a Route. Looked simple enough, but all I could do after following the tutorial instructions was create a straight-line track from waypoint to waypoint. I struggled with this for over a week trying to figure out the problem. Well, I won't go into a lot of detail on my VERY FRUSTRATING struggles, but the problem was that neither the Tutorials nor the Basecamp Help made it clear that you had to unlock a detail map before you could create a turn-by turn route. How could this important step NOT BE emphasized!

2. THE MOST RECENT FRUSTRATION. I have just raised this issue on another thread so I won't go into detail here. But in summary, the question is how to Send just a few selected Routes and Waypoints to my GPS instead of sending the entire contents of My Collection to the Device? I've looked and looked at Basecamp Help and watched and re-watched the Tutorials but I CANNOT get the selected data to my GPS. Again, VERY FRUSTRATING! Of course, I'm sure it's something I'm doing, or not doing, with regard to certain steps, but the point is that even after a year of regular use I am still having a lot of trouble using Basecamp.

I do not remember having anywhere near the problems and steep learning curve using Mapsource or any of the several other mapping programs I have used over the years.

I have been using Garmin GPS's for at least 13 years and I would classify myself as Proficient in GPS usage and an Advanced User. I regularly use my GPS's, Basecamp and other mapping programs as well but still I continue to have problems using Basecamp.

0 SUSSAMB over 11 years ago

Well your 1 is exactly the same in Mapsource or indeed any mapping program, it can only route on maps it can see. Unlike others though Basecamp can also read the maps off your GPS. Incidentally it's explained in the Introduction video that Basecamp only comes with a base map and that you can read the maps off your GPS, maybe you skipped the Intro video? It's also explained in 'Using the map' in Basecamp help, maybe you missed that also?

As for 2 you just have to select the detail you want to send then drag and drop the selection into your GPS, exactly like dragging and dropping in Windows/Mac. It really couldn't be any easier.

0 Former Member over 11 years ago

Well your 1 is exactly the same in Mapsource or indeed any mapping program, it can only route on maps it can see. Unlike some others though Basecamp can read the maps off your GPS.

As for 2 you just have to select the detail you want to send then drag and drop the selection into your GPS, exactly like dragging and dropping in Windows. It really couldn't be any easier.

In agreement with your reply...

[OBSERVATION]
The point I would take back to the Dev Team is that the Tutorial should start from the perspective of someone COMPLETELY unfamiliar with Garmin products -- much less MapSource. The worse thing a "trainer" can do is make assumptions about the skill level of the student and I do agree that in many cases the BaseCamp documentation does make assumptions.

WFMCCANN is a good case in point. Having been a Garmin user for a long time, there was an expectation that the documentation for BaseCamp would start a level 0, not level 2 or 3 or .... WFMCCANN did not make the assumption that BaseCamp would function in any way like previous products. This observation would also hold true for the new user coming from the other perspective of "walk-up-and-use"; trying to use BaseCamp like they've been using MapSource.
[/OBSERVATION]

Oh, and WFMCANN, you must have missed the "Sharing" Video...

0 gssuv over 11 years ago

Cheers SUSSAMB and DRTBYK!

Properly rebuked, I AGAIN watched the "Sharing" Video mentioned in the previous reply, and AGAIN followed the instructions for transferring selected Routes and selected Waypoints TO my GPS Device [BMW Navigator IV], and AGAIN nothing transfers. I've tried both the Transfer>Send to . . . menu procedure and the Drag and Drop method but neither seem to work. After completing this process I do not see any of the Routes or any of the Waypoints I'm trying to Transfer.

I am missing something in this transfering of routes and waypoints process? But I do not know what! And I do know this should process be easy as it has always been so in the past. But now, for some reason that I cannot figure out, I'm having nothing but difficulty? I do not remember anywhere near as much difficulty learning Mapsource!

And as for the installation of the Detail maps, yes there is mention of installing detail maps in the Tutorials, and there is mention of the ability to connect the device's detail maps in the Tutorials, but nevertheless it was not that clear to me that that you had to have the detail maps installed before you could get turn-by-turn routing. It took a week and several Forum visits to figure this out. I don't think I'm alone in this misunderstanding as I have read a number of other posts by BC users who have had the same misunderstanding. All I'm saying in this is that the Tutorials could, and should be, a lot clearer in regard to this and other Basecamp instructions and features.

Thank's for the help, I appreciate the replies,

WFMCCANN
Basecamp Challenged User

0 azdrmn over 11 years ago

I turn my back on the forums for one day and see what happens :) I completely agree that we missed the boat when it came to migrating MapSource users to BaseCamp. We should have created videos and tutorials and in app hints, etc for the die hard MapSource users. After all, they had come up one of the steepest learning curves ever. I should know I worked on it for 3 years. We totally underestimated the resistance to leaving an application that users had spent blood, sweat and tears learning, but now were using somewhat proficiently. However, this very thread touched on one of the main issues; we were designing for users that had 0 experience and users that had a bunch. On the Mac side in particular, we really didn't pay any homage to MapSource, because it didn't exist on the Mac.

I have stated at least a dozen times internally that our biggest mistake in BaseCamp was not designing a migration plan for current MapSource users. There are several reasons for that, some of which have been touched on here, but eventually it comes down to oversight on our part. We spent so much time creating BaseCamp, we didn't take the time to ask "how do users move over and why?"

As for PSeabolt's original question, there's lots of complicated reasons for that too, but it is a LOT better than it used to be. BaseCamp is advertised on the web site in several places, the Zumo and almost all outdoor devices ship with a slip advertising BaseCamp, etc. As for nuvi users, while most don't use BaseCamp, 30% of BaseCamp's users have nuvis. The Trip Planner feature is a long over due assistant for the user that wants to plan a driving trip. PND dev has started working much closer with us to improve the experience. They've even started talking about adding the ability to delete data from within BaseCamp (keep those emails to product support coming. Just don't mention me, because I like my job ;) ).