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Things that I cannot accomplish in Mac BaseCamp

We are very interested in learning about tasks that people are trying to accomplish in BaseCamp, but are unable to.

As most people know, Garmin originally had a very technical application for Windows called MapSource. This application was full-featured, but very challenging to use for many users. For a long time, we wanted to create an application that was easy to use by all of our customers.

When we started designing our route planning application for the Mac, we wanted to start with a good looking, intuitive user interface that all customers could pick up and understand. This includes the soccer mom that is planning her car pool route to the hard core bicyclist that is creating a trail map. As with all re-architecture efforts, every feature from MapSource did not port right over in the first versions of BaseCamp.

So we are asking people to tell us what they are trying to accomplish with BaseCamp and are unable to.

0 SwissMountainLeader over 14 years ago

idunno snow, based on the lack of updates I also think RT is dead.

The only thing that I can think of that RT does better than BC right now is the street name detail. I like to see as many street names as possible, I know clutter isn't nice but I would like that to be my option. Garmin pls consider adding that if possible, it's bad enough that my Zumo shows little detail, I don't need my planning software to be the same.

It does seem to be on a roadtrip of it's own but the indications have been there's a new version planned :

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=6202

0 ANDREADEGI over 14 years ago

idunno snow, based on the lack of updates I also think RT is dead.

The only thing that I can think of that RT does better than BC right now is the street name detail. I like to see as many street names as possible, I know clutter isn't nice but I would like that to be my option. Garmin pls consider adding that if possible, it's bad enough that my Zumo shows little detail, I don't need my planning software to be the same.

About details and map appearance: I agree... I like to see as many street names as possible... and I like thinner tracks (as in MapSource) and small symbols.

My suggestion for BaseCamp developers is: add capability to choose different map layouts.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

Timed Waypoints: The ability to specify a "stopped" time for each waypoint.
This enables improved time management and total time estimations by allowing users to specify the length of time they will be stopped at a waypoint such as a fuel stop or rest stop.

Auto-stop Waypoints: Automatic insertion of 'Timed Waypoints' based upon time or distance seperation.
(a) Users specify a time or distance seperation, and a default stopped time and the application automatically inserts them along the selected route. The user could then adjust the location of each as well as adjust each timed waypoint's stopped time.
(b) User specified a minimum and maximum time or distance for the automatic insertion of Timed Waypoints. The Timed Waypoints are then inserted at the closest existing waypoint or desiganted 'marker' along the selected route. "Marker' being an existing map point for almost anything other than a simple street address. examples: rest stop, business location, park, POI, etc.

Avoidance Route: Routes would include two "Avoidance" properties: "Avoide Route" and "Ingore Avoide Route".
The "Avoide Route" flag would cause other routes to avoid the roads specified. The "Ingore Avoide Route" would supercede the avoid option and enable routes specified with the "ingnore" falg to override any route's avaoid flag.

Waypoint Class: A, B, or C, "Class" designation for each waypoint combined with the ability to restrict the display of waypoints by Class within waypoint listings.
Allows users to better manage waypoints by removing unwanted clutter data. Application properties should enable the setting of a default Class for all new Waypoints created.

Auto Name Prefix: Ability to set a "prefix" to be automatically added to each newly created Waypoint name.
Enables impri=ove waypoint management by empowering users to automatically set a prefix to waypoint names to enable defined groups of waypoint.

Search Criteria - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon common search criterial such as name (or name includes) geographic location such as state or province.

Waypoint Class - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon waypoint Classes, as suggested above.

Directions Export: Ability to export 'Directions' in common data export formats incling tab delimited or spreadsheet compatbile format.
Enabling the "directions" data to be exported in a computer readible format, such as by a common spreadsheet application, empowers user to manipulate their trip data in any way suitable to their usage. I, as an example, like to have a hard copy list of only the waypoints along my route and the mileage between each. For me, all the turn by turn directions are clutter on my hardcopy which I refer to each morning or evening when previewing the next leg of my journey.

Hieractical Dircetions: Collapsible directions detail between waypoint.
Once a route is calculated, the turn-by-turn directions cannot be dismissed, sometimes resultingin uncessary data clutter. By listing the directions in a collapsible nested format, the user could collapsthe detailed turn-by-turn data between waypiont to enable a clear and more easily grasped overview of their route.

Shortest Distance Routing: A route caluculation option that automatically reorganizes a route's waypoints order to achieve the shortest total distance.
This feature enables a new level of ease when planning a road trip. A user simply inputs or selects their waypoints for they're trip and this feature automatically organizes them for the shortest distance, respecting their route preferences.

List Subfolders: Subfolders within Lists allow for refined viewing and management of Waypoints.
When creating a large route planning excercise, such as a roadtrip lasting many days or weeks, the number of routes and waypoints can become daunting and difficult to manage. By enabling additional organizational level a user can organize their route planning by days or legs, each contained withing a single List's subfolders.

Show by Road Type: A hide/show display option based upon road type.
A Display Preference that provides a list of Road Types, such as Freeway, Secondary Highway, Gravel Road, etc., which would be displayed to the user. As an example, if I have my preferences set to avoid Gravel Roads, showing those roads on a map only adds clutter and increases the potential for error or misunderstanding.

iPhone/iPad Compatibility: A reduced feature iPhone/iPad compatible version of BootCamp.
An iPhone/iPad version of BootCamp that would enable at least the basic composition and management of routes along with the ability to download routes and waypoints to popular Garmin GPS models, including the Zumo. Although Apple currently blocks data export in the iPhone/iPad OS, future versions will enable this capability. This data export is important and can be added when available. Until then, having an iPhone/iPad version enables users to carry a soft copy as a secondary backup, replacing a hard copy, and if tied into the iPhone/iPad GPS capabilities, it could function in a limited GPS capacity.

0 azdrmn over 14 years ago

Timed Waypoints: The ability to specify a "stopped" time for each waypoint.
This enables improved time management and total time estimations by allowing users to specify the length of time they will be stopped at a waypoint such as a fuel stop or rest stop.

Auto-stop Waypoints: Automatic insertion of 'Timed Waypoints' based upon time or distance seperation.
(a) Users specify a time or distance seperation, and a default stopped time and the application automatically inserts them along the selected route. The user could then adjust the location of each as well as adjust each timed waypoint's stopped time.
(b) User specified a minimum and maximum time or distance for the automatic insertion of Timed Waypoints. The Timed Waypoints are then inserted at the closest existing waypoint or desiganted 'marker' along the selected route. "Marker' being an existing map point for almost anything other than a simple street address. examples: rest stop, business location, park, POI, etc.

Avoidance Route: Routes would include two "Avoidance" properties: "Avoide Route" and "Ingore Avoide Route".
The "Avoide Route" flag would cause other routes to avoid the roads specified. The "Ingore Avoide Route" would supercede the avoid option and enable routes specified with the "ingnore" falg to override any route's avaoid flag.

Waypoint Class: A, B, or C, "Class" designation for each waypoint combined with the ability to restrict the display of waypoints by Class within waypoint listings.
Allows users to better manage waypoints by removing unwanted clutter data. Application properties should enable the setting of a default Class for all new Waypoints created.

Auto Name Prefix: Ability to set a "prefix" to be automatically added to each newly created Waypoint name.
Enables impri=ove waypoint management by empowering users to automatically set a prefix to waypoint names to enable defined groups of waypoint.

Search Criteria - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon common search criterial such as name (or name includes) geographic location such as state or province.

Waypoint Class - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon waypoint Classes, as suggested above.
...
Show by Road Type: A hide/show display option based upon road type.
A Display Preference that provides a list of Road Types, such as Freeway, Secondary Highway, Gravel Road, etc., which would be displayed to the user. As an example, if I have my preferences set to avoid Gravel Roads, showing those roads on a map only adds clutter and increases the potential for error or misunderstanding.

Thank you for your very detailed feedback. It would be helpful to get more background about what you are trying to accomplish with BaseCamp particularly for the features I've quoted. We are much more likely to add features to meet viable, likely use cases, and then will design the feature to meet those use cases.

0 SwissMountainLeader over 14 years ago

Timed Waypoints: The ability to specify a "stopped" time for each waypoint.
This enables improved time management and total time estimations by allowing users to specify the length of time they will be stopped at a waypoint such as a fuel stop or rest stop.

I understand your request but in basecamp it doesn't really make any sense. For pedestrian and cycle routes the speed/time estimation isn't accurate enough to make any difference.

I'm hard put to understand how Basecamp is estimating speed/time or how it's done on the Oregon either. It doesn't follow any real repeatable rule that I can determine.

It would be nice to add a 30 min stop for example for lunch but it's pointless if the calculation about how long it was taking to get to the lunch stop isn't right.

If basecamp or the GPSr were to use some repeatable rule to calculate this then a more high priority request really ought to be to alter the rules à la Tranter's correction to a basic implementation of Naismith's for example. Given there's elevation data on the maps this ought to be possible.

Road routes in the car seem more reliable though.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

Thank you for your very detailed feedback. It would be helpful to get more background about what you are trying to accomplish with BaseCamp particularly for the features I've quoted. We are much more likely to add features to meet viable, likely use cases, and then will design the feature to meet those use cases.

As for my general usage scenario…
I am a motorcycle rider who like taking long rides from a single day to a couple of weeks. I tend to target specific roads and destinations, usually using secondary highways. Sometimes these will be solo rides of one rider and one bike. On other occasions it will be my wife and I on a single motorcycle and at other times I’ll be leading a group of several bikes. We almost always stay in motels at night and during tourist season, this means we often have to plan where we’ll stop each evening and make motel reservations ahead of time.

For me, a GPS routing program is really a trip planning application. The only routing program I have used to date that takes this type of “trip plan” approach is Microsoft Streets and Trips. It allows you to adjust speed preferences based on posted speeds and your preference to go faster or slower. It allows you to set a start and stop time and then provides the estimated time of arrival at waypoint. It also allows you to set designated rest stops of X minutes duration. This enables a more realistic time estimate of the complete route and helps maintain a schedule when doing an activity such as an Iron Butt ride.

Timed Waypoints: The ability to specify a "stopped" time for each waypoint.
This enables improved time management and total time estimations by allowing users to specify the length of time they will be stopped at a waypoint such as a fuel stop or rest stop.

As mentioned above, this feature enables many benefits.
(1) By implanting timed waypoints I can achieve an improved route completion time and the total real-time of a route, rather than just the drive time.
(2) A delivery schedule, or other route that is time sensitive, such as an Iron Butt ride can be managed more easily. I then know, at any waypoint, what my arrival and departure times should be plus I can help maintain adequate rest stop times on a long endurance ride. If used for delivery or another multi-stop route, I can provide others with a more accurate ETA for each waypoint.

Auto-stop Waypoints: Automatic insertion of 'Timed Waypoints' based upon time or distance seperation.
(a) Users specify a time or distance seperation, and a default stopped time and the application automatically inserts them along the selected route. The user could then adjust the location of each as well as adjust each timed waypoint's stopped time.
(b) User specified a minimum and maximum time or distance for the automatic insertion of Timed Waypoints. The Timed Waypoints are then inserted at the closest existing waypoint or desiganted 'marker' along the selected route. "Marker' being an existing map point for almost anything other than a simple street address. examples: rest stop, business location, park, POI, etc.

For me, this would aid in route planning with required stops for fuel and or rest. Many motorcycles don’t have fuel gauges and gas station stops are determined by mileage. I get about 220 miles per tank of fuel so that means I must stop to gas up at least every 200 mile. At present I must calculate each gas stop distance manually. Then, as happened on a 3500 mile trip last year, a rider with less distance capabilities joins the group and distances and waypoints have to be completely redone. By setting auto-stop waypoints based on a minimum and maximum separation I could easily set rough waypoints and then just drag them for precise placement.

Avoidance Route: Routes would include two "Avoidance" properties: "Avoide Route" and "Ingore Avoide Route".
The "Avoide Route" flag would cause other routes to avoid the roads specified. The "Ingore Avoide Route" would supersede the avoid option and enable routes specified with the "ignore" flag to override any route's avoid flag.

Often when planning a route by secondary highways, the routes attempt to use primary freeways and the routing preferences are too general to be of value. Streets and Trips allows you to set avoidance of specific roads and the software will avoid using these. They are basically like a route, but in a negative sense. The Ignore flag on a route would be an improvement that would allow you to ignore an ignore flag for needs such as to cross an ignored route or to take it for a short stretch if no practical option is available. For me, I would make virtually al interstate highways Ignore routes and then only allow my routing to use them when required.

Waypoint Class: A, B, or C, "Class" designation for each waypoint combined with the ability to restrict the display of waypoints by Class within waypoint listings.
Allows users to better manage waypoints by removing unwanted clutter data. Application properties should enable the setting of a default Class for all new Waypoints created.

In a system such as Bootcamp you build up a huge list of waypoints and this makes navigation complicated. I have waypoints that are significant destinations, I have others that are simply markers to force routing, especially when I transfer the route to my Zumo and it calculates differently. At present I use a complicated system of icons to designate different waypoints. This helps but my list is huge and finding important waypoints is sometimes difficult. By assigning a Class to each waypoint I could restrict the displayed list to only primary waypoints for general route planning or secondary markers for forcing routes down certain roads. The route forcing markers are often located in places that are hard to name descriptively and this makes finding the right ones even more difficult when they are buried among hundreds of other waypoints.

Auto Name Prefix: Ability to set a "prefix" to be automatically added to each newly created Waypoint name.
Enables improved waypoint management by empowering users to automatically set a prefix to waypoint names to enable defined groups of waypoint.

To make waypoint management easier for a long multi-day trip easier, I use name prefixes for each day of the trip. “2.5” would be the 5th stop on the second day. This allows me to organize my route in the correct stop order and differentiate significant destinations from those used only to force a route down specific roads.

Search Criteria - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon common search criteria such as name (or name includes) geographic location such as state or province.

Enabling Smart List by location would allow me to easily look at all my routes and waypoints within a specific geographical area. As an example, I am currently organizing a group ride down the Oregon Coast. I am creating waypoints based up rider input and things found on the web. At present I am using a naming prefix to identify these locations and then I have to manually place them in a Oregon RoadTrip List. Simply making a list rule for all items in the state of OR would make waypoint and route management easier.

Waypoint Class - Smart List: A Smart List Rule based upon waypoint Classes, as suggested above.

As mentioned above, having a smart list based upon Waypoint Class would enable easier waypoint management.

Show by Road Type: A hide/show display option based upon road type.
A Display Preference that provides a list of Road Types, such as Freeway, Secondary Highway, Gravel Road, etc., which would be displayed to the user. As an example, if I have my preferences set to avoid Gravel Roads, showing those roads on a map only adds clutter and increases the potential for error or misunderstanding.

This is a simple matter of refining the map display. If I want to plan a route that uses only Secondary Highways, being able to hide gravel roads and freeways would provide a clearer vision of potential roads.
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I hope this provides a clearer picture. By profession I am a divisional product manager for a high tech consumer products company and as such I have lead many software development teams. This experience enables me to understand the challenges you face in deciding which feature make it into new versions and which do not. If you would like to discuss this in further detail, please feel free to contact me as my visits to this forum are infrequent and random.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

I just want to be able to create favorite waypoint categories like you can do with MapSource. I hate the fact that I can't keep my favorites organized when using BaseCamp. It really makes the Favorites menu option kind of a waste. :(

0 lukeklugman over 14 years ago

Export routes as TCX files from Basecamp would be great, rather than having to use third party conversion routines.

0 azdrmn over 14 years ago

Export routes as TCX files from Basecamp would be great, rather than having to use third party conversion routines.

Thanks for the feedback. We are planning to include this is an upcoming version.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

Another vote for folders.

I just spent a bunch of time today putting my lists in a sensible order. Please, I need folders quickly! Additionally, having the option to order by name, date created, or size (just like in the Finder) would be fantastic.