Basecamp and Big Sur

SYSSAMB,

Just to beat on the dead home a bit more...

Your defense of Garmin's lack of support for Basecamp on a new Mac OS Big Sur is, well pretty lame. 

SUSSAMB said:

Those of us that hang on to older devices have to accept software moves on, and eventually move on too, I've only recently updated to Windows 10, or muddle through. It's our choice, but we can't expect legacy programs to run forever.

I'm sure you are aware that developers who provide Apple applications often need to update their apps to be compatible with new OS releases. This is a normal part of the business. This discussion is not talking about hanging on to an old Mac OS that suddenly is incompatible with new application software. It's just the opposite of that -- older application software that is not compatible with a new OS.

If you like to hang on to old technology that's fine -- your choice. However, not everyone likes to keep old stuff. And, yes, you are correct that we can't expect legacy applications to run forever. But, when the majority of a companies hardware devices have a pretty big dependency on a software application most companies will make appropriate changes to keep up with new technology.

Also, consider this:

Garmin is selling motorcycle specific GPS devices. The folks who buy these devices are creating routes in Basecamp to guide them to all sorts of places all over the better part of the world. The majority of these Garmin GPS buyers are using Basecamp. Many of these users are Mac users, and most Mac users like to keep the Mac computers running on the most up to date OS, especially since Apple provides the OS for free.

The following quote is beyond lame. Apologies, but I am not sure who you are... a Forum admin/guru or a Garmin employee. In either case your comments in this thread are somewhat insulting and condescending. 

SUSSAMB said:

BaseCamp no longer has a devoted team working on it. The team was disbanded years ago and it's no longer being developed further, so I'm afraid it is what it is and will only be looked at when significant issues like this arise. Hopefully the fix won't be too long in coming  but bear in mind this is a free program so Garmin are under no obligation to even keep it going.

So, try to follow along with this, Garmin has released Basecamp 4.8.10 for the Mac. By default, I believe that means that Garmin is keeping it going. However, this application software release is not working properly with Mac OS Big Sur. Since Garmin has provided the application update, and recommended that users do the update, Garmin has an obligation to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem. Being forced to only use 3D map view is not an acceptable work mode.

In addition, there is the circumstance that Garmin has pulled the rug out from under a lot of their customers who use the latest Mac OS. And worse, they did not even give their customers a heads up that this compatibility issue was going to happen, let alone a notice that the Basecamp Mac software team and support has been discontinued. If indeed you believe your statement that Garmin has no obligation to continue to support Basecamp application software for Mac because it's free you are doing Garmin a big disservice, and perhaps you and Garmin should think twice about you representing them.

To close, I am a supporter of Garmin GPS devices (I have four currently and have owned a total of six over the past 15 years), as well as Basecamp (I have been using it since the beginning). I have defended the devices and the software on many occasions, as well as tried to help new users of Basecamp get up to speed. There is a large amount of serious discontent in the motorcycling community regarding how difficult Basecamp is to use. This incident is not going to help and may well impact sales of GPS devices. I for one will not purchase the newest Garmin motorcycle specific GPS Zūmo XT.

Hey Garmin, pay attention, Apple just released an update to Big Sur. 

Andrew, any news?

diggertfu

I'm a mod on a motorcycling forum and don't see the serious discontent that you mention.  A few seem to struggle with BaseCamp, and if you're one of them I recommend this excellent tutorial www.newenglandriders.org/.../

I suspect that your view of the world would depend on the focus of the forum you are moderating. I’m American and have been living in Germany for about ten years. I am involved with several different forums — both U.S. and EU based — the focus of these forums is long distance touring. Route planning via Basecamp is important to many of these folks. Grumbling about Basecamp is not uncommon, ranging from very experienced to new BC users. I have managed to crawl up the steep learning curve of BC by perseverance and believe I have a good understand of how to use it effectively. However, I don’t have knowledge of all of the strange behavior in BC, so there is always something new to learn. BTW, I’m familar with the tutorial you mentioned. I discovered it several years ago and it is excellent. I haven’t looked at it in some time and don’t know if it’s been updated or not. I recall it is a tutorial focused for Basecamp Windows. Even so, it is very good for Mac users as well.

Just as a side note, when I first started using MapSource it was of course on a PC. When I shifted to Basecamp it was still the PC version. I shifted to Mac, but also ran Windows in a virtual machine, and continued to use the PC based Basecamp. At some point I dropped the VM for various reasons and shifted to Basecamp for Mac. I have experienced both versions of Basecamp.

All of this is well and good, but your reply sidesteps the issue of my complaint and the theme of the entire thread. Your answer is a diversion that directs attention towards a totally different issue; the difficulties of using Basecamp. That is a completely different topic.

The issue here is that Garmin has done a poor job of releasing Basecamp 4.8.10 for Mac when it comes to compatibility with macOS Big Sur. The only way BC can be used in this environment is in 3D Map mode, which is very inefficient, and not at all an acceptable workaround.

The rationalizations you’ve delivered are not at all fulfilling, and, as I mentioned, a bit insulting to the intelligence of the folks posting in the thread.

Regardless of your feeling, Garmin does have an obligation to fix a poorly executed application even if it is free and old. Basecamp goes hand in hand with the Garmin GPS devices. They recommend using Basecamp. They release updates and recommend installing updates. So, unless Garmin offers a new (and hopefully improved) application to replace Basecamp — or can recommend an alternative application from a different developer that is tested by Garmin — they should get on with it and fix the problem with macOS Big Sur.

I hope you will be more of a Garmin Evangelist and encourage the Garmin folks to stop being ghosts and take action.

Garmin are looking into it, as per their posts above. All folks can do is wait ...

Well, it is clear that your sense of perception and understanding is far off point. For example, your recommendation to Mac users that MapSource is an option is outlandish. Mapsource is not an option for a Mac. You attempt to muddy the issue, which has been clearly a Mac issue, with MapSource and other Windows diversions shows your lack of understanding.

How about this... Garmin fixes the problems with their products? why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

To suggest that the customers live with hobbled products or bizarre workarounds is disgraceful and insulting. To suggest that Mac users switch to a Windows option is absurd. 

So this thread has been going on almost a month now and no signs of progress from Garmin. Big Sur has been in beta testing and dev for many months before this, yet Garmin missed the boat completely. FYI, all other apps I use on my Macs work fine with Big Sur. You see, these apps were all updated by the respective vendors BEFORE Big Sur was released. That's the way good customer responsiveness works.  I can often tell when a new OS update is happening by all the app updates that come in. If there is a flurry of app updates, an OS update is not far from behind. Yet Garmin apps remain hobbled, stripped of features. Very sad for what was once a promising company.

FYI, this is how BaseCamp is promoted by Garmin:  https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/basecamp/

Key info from Garmin about BaseCamp:

Plan a Trip

Use BaseCamp software to plan your next hiking, biking, motorcycling, driving or off-roading trip. You can view maps, plan routes, and mark waypoints and tracks from your computer — then transfer them to your device.

• The Track Draw feature lets you trace your planned route and view elevation changes, helping you estimate the difficulty of a hike or bike ride.
• Plan the perfect scenic route for your next road trip, making sure your navigator takes you through certain waypoints.
• Play back your routes and tracks over time, and save and share your adventure.
  
  

Overview

• Import and view maps in 2-D or 3-D, including TOPO and City Navigator® maps.
• Create, edit and organize routes, waypoints and more on your computer.
• View BirdsEye Satellite Imagery, BirdsEye TOPO Raster or BirdsEye Select Raster maps, and transfer the data to your device (subscriptions required).
• Create and share geotagged photos.
• View playback of routes, tracks and adventures.

Please note the Garmin content regarding planning of trips. There was big problems a couple years ago, so I called Garmin about the deficiencies, and they claimed BaseCamp was not supposed to be used for planning and device management. I then sent the Garmin tech support folks their own link to BaseCamp to show them that indeed BaseCamp was to be used for managing the GPS and all sorts of other planning, features and purposes. 

And per the Garmin specifications, my Macs meet the system requirements. 

I was an early adopter of this app, from way back when it first made it to the Mac. I think it was called BobCat back then. This was back when Garmin did not support Macs, only Windows, with such computer based support tools. The only Mac based tool was for installing maps and firmware updates. I used to call Garmin pleading that they get on the Mac platform. This was when I had a GPSMAP 60CSx, and it was very difficult to manage that device exclusively on the device. GPS devices today are far more capable and need a computer app such as BaseCamp to manage all the data, maps, etc. that are available. 

You clearly don't read posts properly. I've never said MapSource works on a Mac. I did point this out to you before but you clearly selectively read what is written. I also in reply to someone else said:

Having said that its predecessor, MapSource, is still available and works well in Windows, unfortunately it doesn't run on a Mac OS.

The fact you can't even get that correct leads me to the conclusion you're just trolling.