BaseCamp and TOPO France v4 PRO tried to take me across a military firing range

USERS OF BASECAMP AND TOPO FRANCE V4 PRO BEWARE.

I am walking the length of France from Cherbourg to Menton in stages. I plan each stage using BaseCamp and Garmin TOPO France maps. I aim to cover around 25kms a day, every day, for around eight days. I finished my latest stage of eight days last week. On my final day, Wed 27 April 2016, my planned walking route took me directly across the Camp de Canjuers, from Verignon to Comps-sur-Artuby, close to Draguignan in the South of France. It was only on the morning of the walk, as I was transposing my intended route onto an IGN Top 100 paper map, that I realised that the route that Garmin had planned for me took me across what is very clearly (from the paper map) a military firing range to which access is forbidden. Indeed, on the ground, there are signs every 50m stating that to enter the range is a criminal offence which carries, I have since discovered, a penalty of one year in prison and a Euro 15 000 fine.

As a result of this, I was forced to replan my day's walk on the ground, at considerable inconvenience. I was obliged to walk mostly on roads, which I try to avoid, and have ended up somewhere I hadn't intended to be. Fortunately, it was the last day of the walk and not the first. Had it been the other way around, I would have had to replan the entire walk, away from home and with limited resources.

This was by no means the only problem I had but it was by far and away the most serious. Other minor issues involved the software trying to take me over private property and on tracks that don't exist on the ground.

USERS OF BASECAMP AND GARMIN TOPO FRANCE V4 ARE URGED TO CROSS CHECK THE VALIDITY OF ANY PLANNED WALK BEFORE THEY SET OUT. DO NOT RELY ON GARMIN ALONE.

0 SUSSAMB over 9 years ago

This has really nothing to do with BaseCamp, which can only deal with the detail on the selected map, and not somehow check it's all 100% correct. As for the map, like any map, there is no guarantee that it's 100% accurate, I've never met any map that is as maps are out of date even before they are printed/published.

It's why when I'm planning any trip I use more than one source to at least try to negate any errors. I'm sure in future you will also but am glad you managed to finish your walk successfully, as a long distance walker myself I know how satisfying that is :)

0 JSD105 over 9 years ago

Well, I take your point, but it is BaseCamp that plots the routes using TOPO France maps, another Garmin product using IGN maps as a base. The Camp de Canjuers has been a firing range since 1974; the TOPO France maps I am using are v4, released in June 2015. I have a thing about using old maps, which is why I spent Eur 200 to upgrade from v3, on which I had already spent Eur 300.

As for cross-checking my routes, I routinely take my Garmin GPX traces into Visorando, which gives me, on my computer and on my mobile devices, an exact reproduction of what you seen on a printed IGN map, at whatever scale you choose. It just so happens that in this case, I didn't pick up in advance that Garmin wanted to take me across a firing range.

I still think this is an anomaly that Garmin needs to address and I look forward to hearing what the company itself has to say.

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Have you contacted Garmin directly or the Map data provider?

0 JSD105 over 8 years ago

A few statistics, just to put this issue in context

I thought a few statistics might help just to put this issue in context:

The Camp de Canjuers is the largest military firing range in Western Europe, with a surface area of 35 000 hectares (that is approximately three times the size of Central Paris)
On the ground, it stretches for 35 km east to west, and around 10 kms north to south.
It is home to the French 3rd Regiment of Artillery
It has a permanent military population of around 2 500 soldiers and hosts some 10 000 troops a year on training exercises
The range is used throughout the entire week and active firing takes place on around 330 days a year

We are not talking about a small rifle range here!

The camp is completely out of bounds to unauthorised individuals YET BASECAMP AND TOPO FRANCE WILL QUITE HAPPILY LET YOU PLOT A WALKING ROUTE RIGHT ACROSS IT.

0 JSD105 over 8 years ago

I have emailed Garmin support in the first instance, so far without reply, and will be writing to Garmin European HQ in Southampton, UK.

0 SUSSAMB over 8 years ago

... YET BASECAMP AND TOPO FRANCE WILL QUITE HAPPILY LET YOU PLOT A WALKING ROUTE RIGHT ACROSS IT.

Sorry, but you must stop blaming BaseCamp, it can only work with whatever map you're using. If there is a fault (and there seems to be) it is solely down to the map :)

Edit: I've just checked 2 topo maps that I have of France, neither of them show the area as out of bounds either. There is only a faint reference to the camp itself.

0 JSD105 over 8 years ago

Perhaps we can just accept that this is an overall GARMIN issue, since both BaseCamp and the TOPO France v4 PRO maps are distributed by Garmin, albeit the TOPO maps are based on data supplied by IGN. I am not singling out BaseCamp for blame and understand fully that it can only work with whatever data it is given; it is the two in combination that are at fault.

The key issue for me is what we can do to get Garmin to correct the errors in the mapping data to ensure that this problem does not arise again in the future. I have contacted Garmin support and will write to Garmin Europe, with full back up print outs, but if you have any other suggestions, I would be pleased to hear them.

0 SUSSAMB over 8 years ago

Well the 2 topo maps I checked weren't Garmin maps so it may be some underlying data somewhere that is at fault. Will be interesting to hear what Garmin say in response to your writing to them.

0 JSD105 over 8 years ago

Here is the reply I got from Garmin:

"Dear Jeremy Davis,

After further investigations, you will find below the official reply:

- For TOPO France we don’t get the coverages for the military areas from IGN. We do not have a way to avoid military areas in TOPO, unless the roads are marked as not accessible, basically we will need to have a gate at the entrance of the road that stops from pedestrian and cycling passage, which […] in this case we don’t have.

- The walker has to use his own knowledge and common sense before walking anywhere. I bet there were also large red signs saying “no trespassing” (in French of course). The walker is the ultimate responsible for navigation and he should have reviewed the planned route first. We have the same here on the Dorset coast and it is complicated by the fact that the roads are only accessible in some days of the year.

- For the next topo map product, thanks to your notice, we are talking about to add the military area boundaries on the topo map display (like on a IGN Topo map 1/25000).

This reply can be linked to the same problem from the Official French Hiking Association “La FFR”, some hiking tracks are passing through the military zone (see screenshot attached).

Thank you
--
Webmaster Garmin France"

Rather patronising, wouldn't you say?

0 SUSSAMB over 8 years ago

Well I'm not sure whether it's patronising or not but I'm not surprised by the detail. If the data isn't available to any map provider it can't be included, although it seems they are now going to look at it.