The Use of Folders

Former Member over 14 years ago

I puzzled for a while over the use of folders. How should I use them? It would be nice to know what the developer had in mind.
I had far more data than I could upload into my 5212 chart plotter, so I decided to make three folders with 1,500 waypoints in one, 20 routes in the next and 20 tracks in the third. These would be the selection from My Collection that I would upload into the 5212 for any given trip. As data can be in more than one folder I then categorised the data into folders that related to their location and/or the voyage upon which they were collected, so I could easily find new data and swap the data in and out of the three folders previously mentioned. So any data in My Collection should be in at least one, maybe two or more folders.
It hasn't been working out too well. Hard found data has been disappearing, too easy to delete the data rather than remove it from the folder. Maybe we should only be allowed to delete data from My Collection, when we know we really, really, mean to delete it and not just mean to move from a folder. Also using a touchpad on a laptop contributes to data moving mysteriously.
It is possible to have data in My Collection that does not appear in any folder, so it is "lost". I think that any data in My Collection must be included in at least one other folder, so no data gets lost between the cracks. Also it should be possible to look at a piece of data and see what folders it has been analysed to.
Maybe the folders concept is flawed and another form of indexing and/or filtering should be used. Maybe combined with folders (or briefcase folders) for data that is to be transferred to the device. These briefcase folders (waypoints, routes and tracks) should be limited to the capacity and limits of the device the briefcase is destined to, preventing truncated, renamed and lost data in the device.
Just some thoughts. Advice welcome.

Just as an aside, and if someone want to discuss this we should start a new thread. Why does my very expensive Garmin 5212 Chart Plotter have far far less capacity than my $200 netbook?? Memory is cheap. Why are we limited to 10 characters for a waypoint, why only 1,500 waypoints, 20 routes and 20 tracks? Homeport on a netbook does not seem to have these restrictions? I believe that the 5212 was the best buy that I could make at the time, and I am not really disappointed with it. I love the touch screen (although it locks up if rain gets to the screen, just when the visibility is closing in). Its just that sometimes I feel that I had more capacity with my Commodore Pet computer, with which I started my first business in 1979! :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

We appreciate your feedback. If I may summarize,
1. Data has been disappearing, too easy to delete the data rather than remove it from the folder. Also using a touchpad on a laptop contributes to data moving mysteriously.
It shouldn't be easy to accidentally delete data from folders! The delete button performs the 'remove from folder'. Also, to prevent accidental deletion, you have the option of confirming every delete (unless you checked the 'do not show again' when the delete confirmation came up)

2. It is possible to have data in My Collection that does not appear in any folder, so it is "lost". I think that any data in My Collection must be included in at least one other folder, so no data gets lost between the cracks.
Are you saying that you would like to be able to create a folder named Waypoints, such that then whenever you create a waypoint, it automatically shows up in that folder?

Regarding the 5212, the best place to bring up device specific questions is the Customer Service page.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

1.I have created a Waypoints folder to hold all of my waypoints. The waypoint count in that folder should be the same as the waypoint count in My Collection. Some of these waypoints will also appear in other folders, used to categorise the waypoints. I do the same with routes and tracks. I know I can list them by type in My Collection, but then I have to scroll down 1,500 waypoints to get to routes. So this is just an easy way of seeing, only waypoints or only routes, or only tracks.
I just went into my Waypoint folder and deleted a waypoint. It deleted from all folders and My Collection, I had to recover it using Undo. It did not just remove it from the Waypoints folder. I cannot recall checking a "do not show again" box.

2.Yes, a folder named Waypoints, automatically containing all Waypoints would help me, in the way that I have chosen to use folders. What I want to avoid is a waypoint existing in My Collection and not in the Waypoints folder, so it is not lost or later duplicated. So if any waypoint, or route or track in My Collection, also had to appear in my Waypoints, Routes or Track folders, that would suit me. But that is because I find the My Collection data too large to work with. Another way to do it would be to have a “Waypoint”, “Route”, “Track” or “All”, tag, that just displays the specific data, so that My Collection becomes more manageable.

Regarding the 5212. The question was not device specific, it was just a bit on enlightenment that I was after. The limitations of the devices, I assume due to scrimping on the cost of memory, seem illogical given the power and low cost of modern computers and their components. The inconvenience of of these limitations is a huge inconvenience to the user. A real pain is the arse and a genuine turn off. The people that buy the more expensive machines do more than just fish the same lake, or use the same campsite. I just wanted to know why GPS devices were so limited, maybe there is something that I have misunderstood. I agree this may not be the forum. But a reply like, “its' all down to cost”, or “GPS devices do not use computer components” might enlighten me. I just want to get across that someone seems to be underestimating the frustration that customers suffer from crimped usability. Or to put it another way, a great sales point is being missed.
Anyway, I hope my point is taken, and we'll let it lie.

0 Former Member over 14 years ago

Points taken. Your feedback is very useful and pertinent to our ongoing discussions on how to make the data management UI more powerful.

0 MACHRIA over 14 years ago

PV,
@ your point #1: When you use DELETE to delete a waypoint from a folder, it does "Delete it" from all folders. Think of it as DELETE. It deletes it completely. Instead, you should have REMOVED the waypoint from the Waypoint folder, then it would have been removed from the waypoint folder, but would still exist in the My Collection. ;)

To NEO,
PV's post is just another vote for more Sortign and Filtering of the data if you haven't figured that out already, but I'm sure you did. I'd love to see the old Mapsource data tabs for Waypoints, Routes, Tracks, come back.

0 Michael_Bender over 10 years ago

App <-> Device Synchronization needs to be brought into the 21st Century

I am a long-time Apple user, and a somewhat less long-time Garmin user. I started using HomePort maybe three years ago with my GPSMAP78sc, and one of the first things I noticed is that the "sync" feature where you can transfer between device and HomePort is completely non-intuitive and actually user-unfriendly. Why doesn't this feature work like iTunes/iOS where HomePort and the Garmin device synchronize the various objects (tracks, waypoints, etc...) and if you rename a track on HomePort, which I do quite frequently because "Current Track ..." is a completely useless name, I usually wind up with duplicate tracks on my Garmin device since when I transfer data back to the device, I get both the newly named track and the old track. The whole sync/transfer paradigm is reminiscent of the days when you had to put data on physical media device (say floppy drive or even SD card) and then hand-carry that to your computer, plug it in, and copy the files off of it. That may have been state of the art in the 90's, but this is almost 2015 and Garmin should seriously look at how their applications and devices interact with each other. Get out of the "mounted file system so all I can do is copy stuff back and forth" paradigm and develop a real synchronization system between your devices and your applications.

0 jm47048 over 10 years ago

[QUOTE=Michael Bender;428058]I am a long-time Apple user, and a somewhat less long-time Garmin user. I started using HomePort maybe three years ago with my GPSMAP78sc, and one of the first things I noticed is that the "sync" feature where you can transfer between device and HomePort is completely non-intuitive and actually user-unfriendly. Why doesn't this feature work like iTunes/iOS where HomePort and the Garmin device synchronize the various objects (tracks, waypoints, etc...) and if you rename a track on HomePort, which I do quite frequently because "Current Track ..." is a completely useless name, I usually wind up with duplicate tracks on my Garmin device since when I transfer data back to the device, I get both the newly named track and the old track. The whole sync/transfer paradigm is reminiscent of the days when you had to put data on physical media device (say floppy drive or even SD card) and then hand-carry that to your computer, plug it in, and copy the files off of it. That may have been state of the art in the 90's, but this is almost 2015 and Garmin should seriously look at how their applications and devices interact with each other. Get out of the "mounted file system so all I can do is copy stuff back and forth" paradigm and develop a real synchronization system between your devices and your applications.

I was hoping to get clarification from you.... are you using HomePort on a PC or on Apple? This actually is the PC forum. We have a Mac HomePort forum and developers actively monitor that page. If you are on Apple, would it be possible for you to post this as a thread there so that they may help you? As a PC developer, I am less able to do so :(