What do people use their VA3s for? Genuinely interested

I think I can get a reasonable idea of my heart rate from a stopwatch and a finger against my pulse.

For an average heart rate figure, over an interval that is longer than say 15 seconds, yes. I used to take my pulse manually for 60 seconds to get a trusted numbers for comparison, when my FR235 (with a built-in optical HR sensor) reported figures for my Resting Heart Rate that seem too low for my age and level of fitness.

However, the ‘average’ or ‘lifestyle’ consumer of fitness tracking devices notwithstanding, many customers and users who have been vocal in this forum seem to be more concerned about almost-instantaneous HR readings when exercising, especially around HIIT type activity, and ‘require’ or expect the HR monitors they wear to be supremely responsive to dynamic changes and not subject to, say, a 10- or 15-second lag. To that end, I think reliance on consumer-grade devices that favour portability, convenience, comfort, style and price over accuracy would be misguided. Having it all is simply not a realistic option to which every consumer is entitled, irrespective of how advanced today's technology is, when profit margin, product uptake and market share are thrown into the mix of concerns that every viable offer must try to satisfy.

But I think it's as you say -- to some extent these devices are really aimed at entertainment and inspiration, rather than serious exercise tracking.

In the end, how much of all that data really matter, for users who don't practise professional or industry-strength sense-and-respond process regimes, to which strict adherence is required to secure significant gains or avoid significant losses?

In the end, how much of all that data really matter, for users who don't practise professional or industry-strength sense-and-respond process regimes, to which strict adherence is required to secure significant gains or avoid significant losses?

Well, that's an excellent question. All I'm really interested in is HR and GPS tracking, and most of the other data I can't even interpret. I'd like to be able to rely on the Calorie expenditure readings but, as I've said, I'm not sure I can. When I've asked detailed questions about how the data is interpreted (e.g., what "vigorous" means in "vigorous intensity minutes") I've usually got no answer, which makes me wonder if people actually use a lot of the features provided.

what "vigorous" means in "vigorous intensity minutes"

The short answer is that ‘vigorous’ activity is what earns you twice the amount of credit in the metric of intensity minutes. Your legitimate interest in the criteria for registering ‘vigorous‘ activity by the Garmin device's sensors and intensity minutes calculation algorithms notwithstanding, the meaning and definition of ‘vigorous’ (from the users' perspective) is not based on that criteria at all but only the effect.

See https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-GB/faq/content/pNU9nnDzzGAHmEavp9rpY8
Understanding How the Intensity Minutes Feature Works
?
In order to earn Intensity Minutes credit, you must reach or exceed 10 consecutive minutes where either your step count rate or heart rate is elevated above the threshold that is considered moderate intensity. Performing a more vigorous activity resulting in a high heart rate can double your credit minutes allowing you to meet your weekly goal faster.

See also:

• https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/glossary/index.htm#vig-intensity
  Vigorous-intensity physical activity. On an absolute scale, physical activity that is done at 6.0 or more times the intensity of rest. On a scale relative to an individual's personal capacity, vigorous-intensity physical activity is usually a 7 or 8 on a scale of 0 to 10.
  -
  
• https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/measuring/index.html
  The talk test is a simple way to measure relative intensity. In general, if you're doing moderate-intensity activity you can talk, but not sing, during the activity. If you're doing vigorous-intensity activity, you will not be able to say more than a few words without pausing for a breath.
  ?
  The table below lists examples of activities classified as moderate-intensity or vigorous-intensity based upon the amount of energy used by the body while doing the activity.
  [/LIST]
  [TABLE="align: left, border: 1"]
  [TR]
  [TD="width: 350"]Moderate Intensity[/TD]
  [TD="width: 350"]Vigorous Intensity[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]
  • Walking briskly (3 miles per hour or faster, but not race-walking)
    
  • Water aerobics
    
  • Bicycling slower than 10 miles per hour
    
  • Tennis (doubles)
    
  • Ballroom dancing
    
  • General gardening
    
  [/TD]
  [TD]
  • Race walking, jogging, or running
    
  • Swimming laps
    
  • Tennis (singles)
    
  • Aerobic dancing
    
  • Bicycling 10 miles per hour or faster
    
  • Jumping rope
    
  • Heavy gardening (continuous digging or hoeing)
    
  • Hiking uphill or with a heavy backpack
    
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  -
  
  • https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm
    A rule of thumb is that 1 minute of vigorous-intensity activity is about the same as 2 minutes of moderate-intensity activity.
    
  which all paint a consistent picture.

ASmugDill Thanks, but that's not really my question. My question, as you say, is what criteria the device uses to make the assessment. All the exercise I do counts for the device as "intensity" and yet only part of it is "vigorous." It isn't remotely clear how the distinction is made between "moderate" and "vigorous" intensity, when my heart rate is constant and I'm running at a reasonably constant pace. Presumably it isn't heart rate or pace, or at least not entirely.

I don't know why I'm so annoyed about this lack of clarity -- I guess I just want to be sure that I'm not being presented with random numbers.

All of the algorithms and formulae used by Garmin and Firstbeat would be proprietary and probably classified as ‘trade secrets‘ anyway, so there is no plausible reason for anyone to publicly disclose them just to satisfy customers' curiosity or their perceived ‘need’ to audit the devices' output.

As a consumer, I myself don't believe in transparency being either a necessity or a virtue when companies sell techno-gizmos in the consumer market.

How can I make use of reported data if it bears no connection whatsoever to what I actually do?

I feel I must be missing something here. A lot of the data reported by my VA3 appears to be coming from a random number generator. I do something one day, and it reports something. I do essentially the same thing the next day, it reports something different.

This isn't a matter of transparency. If I bought a bathroom weighing scale, I wouldn't want to know how its sensors worked. But I would want to know that the values it gave were broadly meaningful. If I weighed myself on two occasions 30 minutes apart, and it reported my weight as 50lbs different, I wouldn't just shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, it's a trade secret." I would just assume it was broken.

The VA3 is worse than that, though -- it's like having a bathroom scale that just has red, amber, and green lights on top. It won't tell you what the lights mean in terms of your actual weight, but only that "green" is good, and "red" is bad. Would anybody use such a device? I'm sure I wouldn't, unless I knew what "green" actually meant in terms of things I understand. If the light was red, how would you know whether you had a problem, or the device was defective, if you had no idea how it worked? That's what the data from the VA3 is like -- other than the raw heart rate data, I simply can't relate it to anything that I can affect by anything I do.

This is what I was really getting at when I raised the original question -- are people using these Garmin devices for serious health or fitness applications? And if so, how/why do they trust or interpret the data that is reported? If they are mostly just used like toys, of course, then it hardly matters. But £300 is a lot of money for a toy.

• track my history of swim, bike and runs trying to improve my times/pace. I only do 1 triathlon per year at most but several running races, up to 13.1
  
• tell me the time -- i used to not wear a watch at all and i think doing so makes me more efficient with work
  
• annoy my wife (I like to do this) -- she gets seriously mad each time i look down at the watch and she thinks i'm too obsessed with working out
  
• track my distance/field coverage/HR for Saturday soccer games -- annoy teammates by telling them how much I ran and what parts of the field I covered
  
• "compete" with friends/others on Strava -- get encouragement from others
  
• mainly (through all of the above) stay in shape which makes me a happier person.
  

btw, I do not think there is a "perfect" watch out there. Some are too big/ too expensive (think F5 or 935) or do not do as well what the VA3 does (Apple Watch, Fitbit, Samsung...). If Garmin fixes the bugs that remain, I think we will have a very good middle of the road sports watch with some smart features.

LarsTheBear Last I read the intensity minutes were based on 2 factors, not sure if it's 100% accurate but it seems accurate for me. 1, over 50% of your max HR and 2, duration of 10 minutes or more. For vigorous HR is +80% of max. If you are not getting proper credit for your activity you should get a $15 ANT+ strap to augment the device while exercising. I can clock 150 minutes of vigorous in a single session on my bike trainer.

My use of the garmins have been for general trending in HR for cardio based training. Resting HR as well as max HR is an important datapoint and the garmins appear to have the better algorithm for calculating it. This is my second garmin, it's a lot more style and the GPS is nice compared to the vivosmart 3 but both do suffer from regular software issues that seems unrelated to the hardware. I'll get more use once the weather warms up and I can clock a few more runs.

brontide Thanks. I don't think "vigorous" is just > 80% of Max HR, because every run I do I'm in that zone all the time (I'm not much of a runner). But only about 30-50% of the time I spend running counts as "vigorous" as reported. But maybe it is supposed to work that way, and it's currently just buggy?

I agree that the VA 3 measures heart rate well -- certainly compared to other equipment. The GPS is handy also. To be honest I don't use anything else -- I'm not sure whether I'm missing out, by not using (or even understanding) all the other features.

Get a chest strap and try again, it's likely that you're getting gaps in the HR record which is causing you not to achieve 10 full minutes above 50%. The garmin HR ANT+ strap is often only $15 on Amazon but for now it's a whopping $23. If that doesn't solve it then open a case with support and get the unit replaced, it's defective.