Heart rate monitor on F235 is a disaster

just thought i'd sahre this, run from the other night with some hill reps...

as you can see tracks my hill reps HR increase pretty well and does not appear to have any cadence lock issues, you can see one drop in HR prior to reps, one drop in the middle for a rest period and final a drop at the end for another rest period,

would be curious to anyone thoughts on this run and the HR data!??

I guess we each have our own expectations. For me the data looks horrible. Granted you only gave us a mere snapshot of the data and not a long to the actual workout where we could scrutinize the information in more detail but even just looking at this sample it's obvious that the the HR data is completely useless. the HR should be a steady climb and drop for intervals strongly correlating with your cadence (running pace) and the elevation profile (hill repeats). It does neither. There are parts where it's going down when you were running up the hill and it has parts where it is holding steady when it should be recovering. To me this data would be totally useless and meaningless.

Very well said......that is exactly how i use mine, interested in 25/7 hrm and using it for some running particulaly a steady run but if i want to do intervals etc i just stick on the old strap, best of both!

Just look at the mess fitbit is in currently over their optical sensors

And this is a point where I would 100% agree with you if the 235 was actually capable of decent 24/7 tracking but it fails at that too. My goal with the Fenix 3 HR would be to use the optical HR for daily monitoring and still wear a strap for all my runs. Obviously this is due to my extremely low expectation of optical HR being of any value during runs or other workouts. While I had great results with a Scosche I still rather use the chest strap. But if Garmin and FitBit wants to market the built-in optical sensor as a viable alternative to the chest strap I think they have a lot of work ahead of them before I'd deem it acceptable.

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?340665-Disappointing-HR-tracking-and-sleep-tracking-with-the-235-Compared-to-FitBit-Charge

Partly true, the only thing is that other devices have proven that oHRM CAN actually work pretty damn fine. (Again I come up with the TomTom cardio which does a pretty damn decent job). Unfortunately garmin had to go with their own sensor which doesn't work too well at all, for now at least.

But I think that when you spend ~350 euros on a watch you are allowed to expect more then 'does decent on less demanding steady paced workouts most of the time...'. Let alone all the other issues people seem to be having. Just feels as if Garmin released a yet unfinished product (and unfortunately that is something more and more common nowadays).

I don't believe anything I wrote is untrue. There are substantial challenges to be overcome in handling inherently noisy oHRM data simply due to the multiple layers of indirect effect, and in the 235's current incarnation you see a lot of that noise come through. Other platforms have shown that perhaps a better job can be done, whether that can be achieved in software on the 235's platform remains to be seen. As noted, other platforms have also been shown to have their own issues. I don't believe anyone has perfected wrist-worn oHRM.

My intent is not to defend Garmin; they definitely have work to do. Instead my intent is to illustrate that oHRM and chest-strap HRM are substantially different things and however well the data might be massaged and presented with an oHRM, it has inherent limitations due to the nature of how it's collected.

Yes, Garmin releases seemingly unfinished products. They've been doing that for years and there's no indication they intend to cease doing so. Yes it sucks. Still, it's reality. As I've recommended before, anyone who is sensitive to issues would be best served by waiting a few months post-release and/or ensure they buy from a retailer with a very good return policy.

As for expectations, different people will expect different stuff simply because there's a wide difference in what's important to different people. Buy whatever device is best suited for your needs and meets your expectations; if that's not the 235 then return it or sell it and buy the device that does meet your expectations.

i think alot of people think they are having cadence lock when they arent!

Look at the three runs I posted earlier in the thread, in particular the one marked cool down. That is most definitely cadence lock - my HR was nowhere near 165bpm for the end of that run. As for one marked "race" I was unsure about that one. But yes, there is a chance that you just might be running along at cadence of 165rpm and HR of 165bpm. There would be nothing unusual about that. For me I find that when the cadence and HR reach roughly the same value then the watch just locks onto the cadence and reports that as the HR.

Hi, I upgraded my wife to the 235 (from a 220 & vivosmart). I did some quick testing compared to my fenix3 with chest strap.
I understand it won't be as accurate, may have lag, etc... but generally, the 235 never even got close.
Meaning, my F3 would show my HR around 160, and the 235 would be around 80-90bpm.

I tried tight, loose, front, back, etc. I could never get it to register even remotely correctly.
Is there something I should be looking for?

Thanks!

I did another run today, but I changed things up a bit. I did upgrade to the latest HRM beta version before the run and did a hard reset after. The watch went on my other (right) wrist and I wore it tighter than I normally would. I ran a 5 mile medium effort pace, which would average mid to upper 160's for my heart rate. It was tracking as expected for about the first 5 minutes. I got REALLY excited thinking I was going to finally get semi accurate HR tracking. But my excitement soon left when the watch starting showing upper 170 to low 180 for my heart rate. I slowed my pace down and held it for the last couple of miles to try to see if it would level out, but it still hung around 178 or so. No way my heart rate was that high.

Another odd thing is my cadence shows 190's for this run, which is oddly high. I remember when I slowed my pace down I was thinking to myself how low my cadence was. At this point, I have no idea wtf is going on.

understand it won't be as accurate, may have lag, etc... but generally, the 235 never even got close.
Meaning, my F3 would show my HR around 160, and the 235 would be around 80-90bpm.

Definitely not normal. Any other guinea pigs you can try both 235 and F3/cheststrap on? If the 235's picked up the chest strap (it'll auto-pair if it gets too close), make sure you've disabled the chest strap within Sensors & Accessories on the 235.

When I've done test runs with my 920xt & HRM-RUN and my 235, the 235 displayed HR within 1-2bpm every time I'd look at it. Looking at the runs afterward, the avgHR was the same except one instance (HRM-RUN went wonky for a couple minutes), and maxHR within a couple bpm of one another.

At this point, I have no idea wtf is going on.

If I were in your shoes I'd return/exchange the watch and try another unit.

If that one doesn't work right, I'd return it and sit out for a bit or seek a different solution.

As for expectations, different people will expect different stuff simply because there's a wide difference in what's important to different people. Buy whatever device is best suited for your needs and meets your expectations; if that's not the 235 then return it or sell it and buy the device that does meet your expectations.

surely then the limitations of the OHRM should be clearly stated in the advertising/marketing/promo and on the packaging in order to decrease that difference in expectation and allow consumers to make an informed decision.

surely then the limitations of the OHRM should be clearly stated in the advertising/marketing/promo and on the packaging in order to decrease that difference in expectation and allow consumers to make an informed decision.

Ha, yes, that would be a lovely world if such things happened with the myriad products made available.

Instead we live in a caveat emptor world and it is upon the consumer to perform his or her own research. So long as a marketer doesn't explicitly lie or hide key information from the public, the onus lies on the consumer to know what they're buying. Sure it's be nice if it were different, but until it is we have to live in the reality we're in. This is why it is important to not always chase the lowest price; paying a bit more for knowledgeable employees and solid retailer support can be money well spent, particularly for the non-technical consumer who doesn't love diving in to educate themselves.

As to the part you quoted however, I was specifically referencing the very disparate expectation of runners buying the 235 to allow themselves to skip a chest strap for their steady / endurance runs with the 24/7 HR as window dressing vs. the individuals buying the 235 as a 24/7 HR enabled activity monitor with the running/cycling stuff as window dressing. Two very different approaches to one product, and likely to disappoint one group in its current incarnation.

Never buy a new model (experimental) product in its first year he keeps repeating in his head.....
The attached image is taken after running 10 times up n down the house staircase. You can see a comparison between the Forerunner 405 with chest strap and the Forerunner 235. My old trusted companion which i have had for 6 years forrunner 405 shows 143 bpm and the forerrunner 235 showing at the same time 112bpm. A whoping 30 bpm difference. Really feeling like i was sold an unfinished product Garmin

The HRM of the 235 is just unreliable and works only partially, hence useless

I used it to run 4 races at Disney World this weekend (Dopey) and HRM was right on with expected results for me. No interval work of course, but did quickly pickup HR changes when I walked water stations and a couple of potti breaks. I wear it tight as others describe. Very pleased and impressed user here.