Training Status

Same problem for me :-(

Just use 'Run' for all your runs. I do mostly trail running and that's what I do.

Anyone know of a reasoning for this,

Yep!. Plenty of discussion about the reasoning for this. Look in the posts where people are discussing VO2max and training effect. In a nutshell, some people believed that their slower pace on some trail runs affected the VO2max calculations. I just think it all evens out over time so never get too excited about it.

VO2 Max changes are disabled in Trail mode so if you do your all runs in that mode then the training status algorithm has no way to determine if your fitness is going up or not. Should get training load changes though

Tim's got it right, but I'll layout the moving parts for a little background about why that's the case.

Training Status evaluates/interprets changes in your fitness level (VO2max) in light of your current Training Load. Your Training Load can (or should) accumulate during any measured activity that includes heartbeat data. It's based on the same EPOC calculation that's used for Training Effect.

Now here's the key problem, to detect your VO2max, your device needs a combination of internal load data (HR) and external load data (running pace, or bike watts). These are used to essentially look at how much 'work' you are doing and how much 'effort' is required to produce it. The Firstbeat analytics engine is pretty smart, which means that it quality checks incoming data and uses only the reliable and meaningful segments for the calculation. This works great for most normal running, where the interferences are things like stopping for a traffic light, the occasionally up/downhill, GPS signal losses, etc. When it comes to trail-running (naturally what constitutes a trail run is a broad, broad category, so ymmv), the constant changes in conditions make it nigh impossible to reliably identify the right representative samples to produce a good fitness calculation. The constant minor maneuvering of trail running is also a challenge for GPS to track as well.

Over the years, clever people started categorizing irregular runs (things like running with a weighted vest) as 'Trail Runs' to avoid having them factor into their VO2max calculation.

Because of these limitations, I wouldn't expect VO2max detection capabilities to be added to Trail Running anytime soon

Now, the good news...

It doesn't take very long for a normal run to produce a VO2max estimate... def less than 15 mins in good conditions and probably closer to 10. So, if you want to take advantage of Training Status, you'll just need to incorporate a few short runs into your activity schedule.

Hope that helps.

As I noted above, I don't differentiate between any of my runs, the majority of which are on trails. The trails I run on vary from very technical rocky single track, to wide 4-wheel drive track and all sorts in between. On a good trail, I can run almost as fast as I can on the road. I do a lot of hill running on road and trail - hills are our friends! As a result, I have a wide range of physiological performance variables. I also get the opportunity to undertake VO2max assessments whenever I feel like it. I also do enough running to know where my capabilities are. That being said, for probably the first time ever, I actually looked to see what Garmin had for my predictions. I'd say they're almost spot on.



I'm 61, with a lab VO2max of 47ml/kg/min - last taken 6 weeks or so ago. Garmin currently gives me 45 for running and 42 for cycling. Given I've not done a great deal these past 4 weeks or so, I'd say that's realistic.

Sometimes we overthink things IMHO. If you run enough, train enough, the estimates work. If you 'cherry pick' activities to exclude from the calculations, then I suggest the chances of overestimating performance is high.

I have no training status and haven't had one for over a month now due to the climate and not running outdoors (though my Vo2 Max just moved up a point). This isn't the first time this has happened. From what I have seen with my watch, if I don't use the watch for a recorded run within a 2 week period; the watch loses the training status (No Status). Your metrics are still there (Vo2 Max, Training load, Race Predictor, Recovery) but no status. I'm still working out everyday and getting a Training Load and recovery time, but zero status.

Hello,

same problem for me with fenix 5s.
Maybe a coincidence but the problem appeared at the end of september (since 6.71 firmware for fenix 5s).

Thanks for that, interesting info,
I can understand the Vo2 Max setting relying on these metrics, after reading these posts, but still wonder why training status should be involved, any type of training / activity should affect this.
It's minor I know just something else I'm trying to understand on the watch!,


Cheers

Tim's got it right, but I'll layout the moving parts for a little background about why that's the case.

Training Status evaluates/interprets changes in your fitness level (VO2max) in light of your current Training Load. Your Training Load can (or should) accumulate during any measured activity that includes heartbeat data. It's based on the same EPOC calculation that's used for Training Effect.

Now here's the key problem, to detect your VO2max, your device needs a combination of internal load data (HR) and external load data (running pace, or bike watts). These are used to essentially look at how much 'work' you are doing and how much 'effort' is required to produce it. The Firstbeat analytics engine is pretty smart, which means that it quality checks incoming data and uses only the reliable and meaningful segments for the calculation. This works great for most normal running, where the interferences are things like stopping for a traffic light, the occasionally up/downhill, GPS signal losses, etc. When it comes to trail-running (naturally what constitutes a trail run is a broad, broad category, so ymmv), the constant changes in conditions make it nigh impossible to reliably identify the right representative samples to produce a good fitness calculation. The constant minor maneuvering of trail running is also a challenge for GPS to track as well.

Over the years, clever people started categorizing irregular runs (things like running with a weighted vest) as 'Trail Runs' to avoid having them factor into their VO2max calculation.

Because of these limitations, I wouldn't expect VO2max detection capabilities to be added to Trail Running anytime soon

Now, the good news...

It doesn't take very long for a normal run to produce a VO2max estimate... def less than 15 mins in good conditions and probably closer to 10. So, if you want to take advantage of Training Status, you'll just need to incorporate a few short runs into your activity schedule.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for your clear explanation. This was my understanding as well.
However I've got one question specific to this point. If you do not run during a certain period of time (injury) but practice other exercice (clycling (without powermeter) or swimming) keeping your training load constant or increasing, as you do not have VO2max value calculated during this period of time your training status will be considered as unproductive . Isn' it?

I had this "problem" on holiday when hired a bike (without a PM) and wasn't running that week. I started "Unproductive" and remained so as did not do anything that triggered a VO2 Max calculation. It was however a productive period of training as when got back home and rode again on a bike with a PM I went to Productive and indeed did my best TT of the year a few days later.