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Sleep Tracking Issues

Thought I would just add my experiences with the first couple of weeks of sleep tracking with my 245.  I see lots of threads complaining about the Garmin sleep tracking accuracy and capabilities so I am getting the impression that it is not really very accurate.  But just in case anyone has some suggestions as to how I might improve my sleep tracking, here are my observations and issues:

It seems the device is depending almost entirely on movement and these first few points/questions have to do with that.  I guess it makes sense that movement would be the only way for Garmin to determine sleep as it is only strapped to your wrist but that lead to accuracy issues for other people too?  The 245 it seems to start saying I am asleep when I am reading in bed for an hour or so before actually going to sleep.  Also in the morning it always shows many, sometimes over 100, steps, even if I have not left the bed all night.  I do tend to sleep on my stomach with my arms up under my pillow so the watch may move around a bit, even when I am sleeping.  It does however seem to accurately show if I actually awake during the night.  This I know from remembering that I woke up once or twice, and then seeing that reflected accurately on the timeline.

Another observation is that I do not ever wake unrefreshed and I usually sleep 7-9 hours.  I am never tired during the day.  I have never been told that I am a restless sleeper or that I snore or breathe loudly during sleep.  Never been told I sleep anything other than peacefully with even breathing.  However, the watch almost never shows deep sleep and when it does it is only a couple or a few minutes.  The deep sleep it might report also comes several hours into the night, rather than near the beginning of the night where it should normally appear.  The device shows mainly light sleep, interspersed by many (8 to 14) shorter periods of REM.

Lastly the Pulse Ox and respiration is all over the place.  Pulse Ox averages in the low 90% range but at times drops briefly to low 80s.  Once it single drop to 78%.  Should I discount that monitoring as inaccurate?  

The Pulse Ox readings may be related to respiration?  Generally my sleep respiration is almost the same as my waking resting respiration, 12 to 14 breaths per minute.  However during sleep the 245 registers several deep down spikes to as low as 7 breaths per minute.

How does all this compare to what others are seeing?  If my arms do move a bit under my pillow or the weight of my body and head compresses my wrist and the watch, might that be why I register almost no deep sleep and so many distinct, short periods of REM?

Edit:  Talked to Garmin and because I sleep with arms/wrists, under my pillow and head, the added pressure to the watch is very likely making the Pulse Ox inaccurate as that sensor is very affected by pressure of skin contact. This could also be impacting accuracy of respiration and heart rate while sleeping as the added pressure between the watch and wrist can impact the HR sensor also and that in turn affects how respiration is calculated.  The Garmin rep also stated that the phases of sleep could be accurate or inaccurate depending on wrist location and how much movement when sleeping.  He felt that me seeing almost no deep sleep could certainly be incorrect given that I am never tired during the day and my sleep is reported as quiet and sound.  Basically if you sleep on your side or back with your wrist free and clear and do not move your arm much during sleep, it may be fairly accurate.  Otherwise, probably not so much.

So the sleep tracking features seem really to be more of a curiosity and fun thing to monitor rather than anything really that accurate at all times and for all people.  If I had any perceived sleep issues of my own, I would certainly not depend on one of these watches for accurate sleep information.  However for ongoing heart rate, averages, maximums, etc. the watch seems very good.  And I love the other tracking features, activity recording, and notifications.

  • I come from Fitbit and Huaweii wrist bands and I can testify they are ages ahead in AI when recording sleep. It is so frustrating after spending an hour getting your newborn back to sleep in the middle of the night and see the Garmin watch characterized that as light sleep. I just hope the other metrics are not as a joke as the sleep ones. 

    Any suggestions as which other brand with a cadence sensor? (That was my only reason to change to Garmin)

  • It is really very inaccurate and considering that the new recovery pro feature considers sleep it is hard to believe that it will not come to 245.

  • The heartrate metric is also problematic. I noticed my heart rate was at times inaccurate compared to other devices, including a very accurate blood pressure monitor and a Kardia device. When I called Garmin to ask about it, they pretty much said that the heart rate reported should be viewed for entertainment purposes only.  They did send a replacement 245 just in case it was the device.  The new one has been better but still not rock solid at all. The thing is that except for the occasional very wrong high rate alert. (245 reports resting heart rate of 120 or above while other devices show 65 or so bpm), you would not know that the 245 was off unless compared to other devices or you manually took your pulse.  In my case the 245 will often, but not always, show a rate 10 to 15 bpm higher than other devices or a manual pulse check.  Garmin says this is just par for the course with a wrist worn device with the type of sensor the 245 has.  They said is also can be related to individual body differences in skin type, blood vessels, etc. etc.  Basically a lot of excuses for a HR  metric that doesn't measure up, just like the sleep issues. 

  • If anyone want to see another demo of how wonky Garmin's sleep tracking is, try this.  Set your sleep time for sometime during the day when you will be awake.  Then, once that time has passed, look at the sleep statistics the watch will display.  I have more deep sleep and less awake time recorded when I am wide awake then when I am truly asleep in the middle of the night! 

  • I used to have a Vivoactive 4 before which I traded for a Fitbit Charge 4, but as I needed a real running watch, I got the FR 245 anyway. So I knew Garmin was bad at tracking sleep, but I'm baffled by how bad it is. You have to set sleeping time and wake up time, which is weird because that is what you want to know, and indeed, the watch couldn't tell that I'm snoozing for an hour, instead registering REM and light sleep. During a catchup sleep of 10 hours, it managed to register only 20 minutes of deep sleep, where Fitbit gets to 2h15. Instead I find a dazzling 4h33 of REM sleep, while Fitbit estimates 1h39. You tell me which figures are more likely. I don't mind the figures being slightly off. We know it's not a medical device. Yet these reports makes no sense and I don't get how they manage to add a function like body battery, if you can't measure our recharge time anyway.

    Hopefully the next update of the 245 will fix this apparently longstanding issue. It would make a reasonable watch worth the 220 EUR spent on it.

  • I don't think the sleep tracking uses the sleep time setting. IMHO it's used for do-not-disturb behaviour. At least I hope :)