Fenix 5X or Wait?

This comes from a guy willing to spend money on toys, but I do require they work modestly well. I tell anyone who sees me wearing it the same and generally summarize it as a random data generator I wear on my wrist. Build quality is good, and battery life is good, but without quality data, it's a paper weight. If you just want to oooohhhh and aaaahhhh over all the data and don't look to make sense of it, or look for consistency you might be happy with it.

I run with my 5x roughly 6 times a week (sometimes 7). I backpack, hike, and climb with it as well. I'd hardly call it a random number generator.

I run with my 5x roughly 6 times a week (sometimes 7). I backpack, hike, and climb with it as well. I'd hardly call it a random number generator.

I ‘d knock on wood! Maybe you have found an elusive unicorn. Perhaps running/hiking is the one thing this does well. That said, these forums are overflowing with issues shared by MANY users who can all attest to data problems, integration issues, crazy sensor readings, etc. The fact there are issues isn’t the worst part - it’s the fact Garmin is so piss poor at addressing in a timely fashion. This isn’t their entry level device.

I ‘d knock on wood! Maybe you have found an elusive unicorn. Perhaps running/hiking is the one thing this does well. That said, these forums are overflowing with issues shared by MANY users who can all attest to data problems, integration issues, crazy sensor readings, etc. The fact there are issues isn’t the worst part - it’s the fact Garmin is so piss poor at addressing in a timely fashion. This isn’t their entry level device.

Well now. I haven't been the most enthusiastic person about how the Fenix 5 series has been handled by Garmin, as there has been some issues here and there for sure. But the fact of the matter is that MOST of the owners of the F5, F5X and F5S are NOT on this forum talking about issues with their wearables. That doesn't mean that the products are perfect, but the fact of the matter is that most users do NOT experience any issues with their devices. You make it sound like finding a working watch is more rare than not... And that is not the case. Very, very, very few % of Garmins wearable userbase are on this forum. I'd say that at least 90-95% of the owners are happy with their purchases.

I ‘d knock on wood! Maybe you have found an elusive unicorn. Perhaps running/hiking is the one thing this does well. That said, these forums are overflowing with issues shared by MANY users who can all attest to data problems, integration issues, crazy sensor readings, etc. The fact there are issues isn’t the worst part - it’s the fact Garmin is so piss poor at addressing in a timely fashion. This isn’t their entry level device.

Just curious, if you didn't buy it for running and hiking, what did you buy it for? I'm guessing those two things are in it's core design use case. For what it is worth, it has been perfect biking as well (with Garmin speed, cadence, and HRM-run sensor), but i am on the bike very little these days, so I don't mention that.

I've seen a lot of complaints about things like "floor counter" and "the wrist HRM doesn't work well when weight lifting," and "resting HR." Those are not what I'd consider core functions and i can't remember ever getting upset over climbing 10 flights of stairs and only getting credited for 9 or 11. The elevation profile when hiking in the mountains and while running seems to be quite accurate. I bought the watch because i wanted to run and i wanted to climb mountains. It does these things quite well and I am more than happy with my watch. Using the built in maps to navigate back to camp in the extremely limited visibility of thick clouds above treeline last fall convinced me of the usefulness of the map even in an area I know like the back of my hand (when i can see more than 100 feet). If you've used any other smart watches, then you also know the battery life of this device is amazing even if using GPS every single day for running.

I had issues with the HRM sensor cracking (so i'm on my 2nd 5x) but Garmin support was fantastic and shipped me a watch before I even returned the defective one. They did this because i am in the middle of a 1/2 marathon training program and they didn't want to disrupt my watch driven workouts. Overall Garmin has been fantastic in their support of this device. They have added features that were not available at launch. They are attempting to address complaints that are filed to the beta firmware email address, and when a watch is defective they have been responsive, empathetic and quick with a solution. I say all this to point out that I have the same watch as you and yet, my experience has been the exact opposite. Instead of the last Garmin i'll buy, this will be the first in a likely long line.

Well now. I haven't been the most enthusiastic person about how the Fenix 5 series has been handled by Garmin, as there has been some issues here and there for sure. But the fact of the matter is that MOST of the owners of the F5, F5X and F5S are NOT on this forum talking about issues with their wearables. That doesn't mean that the products are perfect, but the fact of the matter is that most users do NOT experience any issues with their devices. You make it sound like finding a working watch is more rare than not... And that is not the case. Very, very, very few % of Garmins wearable userbase are on this forum. I'd say that at least 90-95% of the owners are happy with their purchases.

I am truly happy for you and some other users who are satisfied with the quality of data you are getting and that it suits your needs. I respect your input as I would hope you respect mine. I'm not sure where you are coming up with statistics of success or failure of the user community - as we all know 94.374% of statistics are made up on the spot (I just did!). The reason I have become so vocal about the quality of the device and Garmin eco-system is in the 2.5 months I've had it there have been too many basic issues that Garmin has been far too slow to respond too. At least in my opinion, for a device that is 1+yr old on the market and 8 software release in, and considered to be a premium device. Out of the box I was super impressed with the amount of data available, but as I started to really correlate the data with my daily activity it just doesn't seem to deliver a standard or quality of data I would expect from such a high end device. This isn't your entry level fitbit we are discussing. And just to share my expectations for a device at this price point - I'm not looking for atomic precision from a wrist worn device, but I am looking for a device that performs consistently and captures data when I expect it to be.

Just to provide some examples of the issues I am observing and actually measuring:

• Most stair counts are missed by 50% or more
  
• I've had data lost for 8 weeks in Garmin connect (now resolved, but took 8 weeks!),
  
• I haven't gotten though a single elliptical workout session where the device measured accurate HR readings from start to finish. I'm not talking a few beats discrepancy or a momentary data point being off - I'm talking about measuring 90 when I'm at 140 and not going up from there until a reboot. And sometimes multiple. This is also an issue other users who review their data have noticed and Garmin has acknowledged, but no ETA on a fix.
  
• The altimeter is off most of the time by a considerable margin. I live in a coastal area which is not subject to extreme altitude variations. If the altimeter is +/- 400', it doesn't make it vary usable if that is also equal to the typical topology variation.
  
• The HR sensor is very slow (maybe even misses) short burst intervals. Though not scientific, I have compared my observations anecdotally with friends who use Apple and Fitbit which seem to track much better.
  

These are the major red flags in my book.

I'm glad you offer an opinion contrary to my own. Together we can offer two valid experiences for others to make an informed decision. And maybe, along the way, Garmin will become a bit more responsive to the issues different users are experiencing and the expectations for a device at this level.

I think i understand some of your issues and some of the differences in our experience.

1. The barometer based altimeter needs regular calibration. This is because local air pressure changes regularly. My watch is calibrating this sensor roughly 6-7 times a week when i turn on GPS. You may not be getting that calibration regularly if you use the elliptical application as it doesn't trigger GPS. This will impact your floor counts as well, but I'll be honest here and say I pay little attention to that as I know there are several stairs that I take on a regular basis that are different heights for a single floor change, so maybe it would be useful to know how Garmin defines a single floor. That said, the altimeter isn't going to work well if not regularly calibrated due to local pressure changes. Ask a pilot about this.

2. The wrist based HR sensor is probably going to be useless for anything where you are flexing your wrist much. I understood the limits of this technology when I purchased the watch, but also understand that others didn't or feel that the watch is not performing as advertised. If you think it is bad on the elliptical, try getting meaningful data on a rock climbing wall or hangboard session. It is completely useless. It is fortunate that the watch has such fantastic sensor support. For my use, an HRM-Run allows me to have much more reliable HR data when doing a climbing based workout and gives me access to some advanced running metrics when running. I understand that you may or may not want to go this route.

I have no experience with general bugs with the elliptical app, as the only cardio machine I ever use is the treadmill, and only when i can't get outside for a run, so potentially Garmin has some work to do there. I suspect the validation on the elliptical was not as well done as the running app. If you use this machine on a regular basis, I understand your frustration and can only hope that you've been providing feedback to the beta email address.

For me the altimeter works very well on trail running or while climbing in the mountains. The GPS is solid and the maps are useful. I also enjoy the training status and metrics. I appreciate that the treadmill app allows me to calibrate it before saving the file so my distance, and by extension the mileage in my gear tracker are accurate even without a foot pod. The watch is very well suited to my use. This goes back to my comment that I'd hardly call it a random number generator. Perhaps we should state our specific issues and our specific use case for the watch instead of making generalizations. Both camps (pro and against) could improve the dialogue here by doing that.

I want to thank you all for chiming in with your own experiences and input as well as generating discussion over this wearable. It's a very expensive piece of equipment and this feedback helps everyone, including myself, that is looking to make this purchase. I'm still riding the fence and haven't decided on whether to make this purchase or look at other wearables based on the feedback in this topic.

If you just want to oooohhhh and aaaahhhh over all the data and don't look to make sense of it, or look for consistency you might be happy with it.

If you are committed to going with Garmin for some reason, then I would recommend buying the lowest end device that meets your basic needs. This way you'll fell less ripped off in the end and can justify the move to another platform sooner.

I am a data/information junkie through and through. It partially drives my motivation to be more active just so I can quantify my current fitness, results, and progress. I can structure my workouts with hard, observable data and have peace of mind that I am not wasting time, energy, and effort. So accuracy is EXTREMELY important to me. Now, I don't expect "atomic precision" as you have put it either, but I agree that accuracy is extremely important and that is what is making me hesitant with making this purchase.

The reason I am so focused on Garmin is because I have poured over months of reviews and articles and comparisons over dozens of websites and the Garmin Fenix 5/935 have consistently been ranked at the top. I have also poured over the issues and complaints with the Fenix 5 series all across various blogs, sites, and these forums. Despite reported issues, the Garmin Fenix 5 series and the 935 still consistently ranks better than everything else in what I'm looking for in a wearable. I try to become as informed as possible over anything I buy, especially something as expensive as this wearable. I have noticed that people generally fall into two camps: those that have had fantastic experiences with this wearable and those that have had terrible experiences and issues with this wearable. Not much in-between. It's been starkly divided on everything I have read. Hence my hesitance, yet interest in the product.

I think i understand some of your issues and some of the differences in our experience.

1. The barometer based altimeter needs regular calibration. This is because local air pressure changes regularly. My watch is calibrating this sensor roughly 6-7 times a week when i turn on GPS. You may not be getting that calibration regularly if you use the elliptical application as it doesn't trigger GPS. This will impact your floor counts as well, but I'll be honest here and say I pay little attention to that as I know there are several stairs that I take on a regular basis that are different heights for a single floor change, so maybe it would be useful to know how Garmin defines a single floor. That said, the altimeter isn't going to work well if not regularly calibrated due to local pressure changes. Ask a pilot about this.

2. The wrist based HR sensor is probably going to be useless for anything where you are flexing your wrist much. I understood the limits of this technology when I purchased the watch, but also understand that others didn't or feel that the watch is not performing as advertised. If you think it is bad on the elliptical, try getting meaningful data on a rock climbing wall or hangboard session. It is completely useless. It is fortunate that the watch has such fantastic sensor support. For my use, an HRM-Run allows me to have much more reliable HR data when doing a climbing based workout and gives me access to some advanced running metrics when running. I understand that you may or may not want to go this route.

I have no experience with general bugs with the elliptical app, as the only cardio machine I ever use is the treadmill, and only when i can't get outside for a run, so potentially Garmin has some work to do there. I suspect the validation on the elliptical was not as well done as the running app. If you use this machine on a regular basis, I understand your frustration and can only hope that you've been providing feedback to the beta email address.

For me the altimeter works very well on trail running or while climbing in the mountains. The GPS is solid and the maps are useful. I also enjoy the training status and metrics. I appreciate that the treadmill app allows me to calibrate it before saving the file so my distance, and by extension the mileage in my gear tracker are accurate even without a foot pod. The watch is very well suited to my use. This goes back to my comment that I'd hardly call it a random number generator. Perhaps we should state our specific issues and our specific use case for the watch instead of making generalizations. Both camps (pro and against) could improve the dialogue here by doing that.

Building on your points, here's a little more insight:
So the thing about the barometer/altimeter is I understand that it will need calibration with weather changes and you are on the move. Garmin suggests I calibrate it once an hr! With what? The other bar barometer I carry in my back pocket? If it needs calibrating this often it should have a mode to actively ping gps to re-acquire your elevation. This would help keep it accurate to a tolerance I think most would accept or find meaningful. Not just during syncing during an active activity mode. With things like stairs.... my office is up 4 full flights. Garmin will usually register it as 1 or 2. I live in a 3 story townhouse and stairs be my life... I often see 1or 2 flights a day reported when while I am informally tracking 6-10.

The thing about the wrist based HR is it's really good.... when it starts tracking. The problem is you never seem to know when it is that it will get a CORRECT lock or if it will keep it. As I tried to (poorly) explain, it always seems to grab some data, but you don't know when it's right unless you are constantly double checking. I've attached a graphic that might help. I have lots of these examples, some a show really crazy data and some are not as bad. I'd probably be content if I could say, "it's right most of the time" but I can't. As this graphic shows it was off 12 out of 25 min! I think the worst I have seen is 6min of good data in a 25min sprint. I just don't know what I'm getting unless I am constantly manually tracking, so what's the purpose? The popular question to ask at this point is: Is it tight enough, or are you wearing it in the right position. I would say yes to both. With no change in position or tightening, the device will suddenly start tracking after reboot 1, or 2, or maybe 3, probably by 4, almost definitely by 5, .... sometimes. ;) . I don't really mind the slow response it seems to have to warm-up or interval training. I can deal with a consistent profile better than I can with mystery data.

In the next couple of weeks I'll be transitioning to a lot more outdoors biking and hiking as the weather starts to cooperate, I'm hoping my experience improves, but I've already read of others reporting many of the same issues during outdoor biking.

The other possibility is there is a hardware issue behind all the different experiences and issues you can read about, but Garmin says no, and I have no grounds to prove otherwise.

I've worn fitness trackers for years and never had any that were this irregular/temperamental with such frequency. I suspect you have a better experience with your running activities because movement associated with running is much more exaggerated then during casual daily movements. The key being this isn't sold for running only.

One thing I would recommend for the person considering the purchase. Get it from bestbuy and get the BB warranty. As I understand it, you can pretty much test drive for quite a long time and just return it if it doesn't meet your performance expectations.

One thing I would recommend for the person considering the purchase. Get it from bestbuy and get the BB warranty. As I understand it, you can pretty much test drive for quite a long time and just return it if it doesn't meet your performance expectations.

Thank you for this! I've been curious as to where the best place is to purchase the Fenix 5x or the 935 for the return policy. I have heard very good things about REI's return policy so I've been considering getting it from there with a warranty, but if Best Buy has a great warranty, I can easily pick that up better than I can receive it in the mail or return it in the mail to and from REI.