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80/20 Running and the FR935

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  • 80/20 Running and the FR935

    Hi All,

    Is anyone else doing the 80/20 running philosophy and using their Garmin 935 and training via heart rate?

    I set my zones based on the suggestion by the author here http://mattfitzgerald.org/how-to-cre...garmin-device/ so essentially my Garmin zone 1 is the 80/20 zone 1+2. As a result the majority of my runs are in Garmin zone 1. Does Garmin base the training effort/performance on what zone you're in based on your configured zones? It seems now most of my runs are only 2.2 for aerobic effect, is this just a result of running slower. Do the Garmin metrics not really align with the 80/20 philosophy? I just feel like my watch is trolling me now saying I'm unproductive for running slower.

  • #2
    I believe it’s heart rate at the pace that counts that being measured by %MHR or %HRR. The watch can also use HRV to measure if you are recovered as well and you get unproductive if you are not fully recovered or tired. The algorithms are designed by FirstBeat and so find the FB sticky thread and read the information provided.

    HTH

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ninan View Post
      Hi All,

      Is anyone else doing the 80/20 running philosophy and using their Garmin 935 and training via heart rate?

      I set my zones based on the suggestion by the author here http://mattfitzgerald.org/how-to-cre...garmin-device/ so essentially my Garmin zone 1 is the 80/20 zone 1+2. As a result the majority of my runs are in Garmin zone 1. Does Garmin base the training effort/performance on what zone you're in based on your configured zones? It seems now most of my runs are only 2.2 for aerobic effect, is this just a result of running slower. Do the Garmin metrics not really align with the 80/20 philosophy? I just feel like my watch is trolling me now saying I'm unproductive for running slower.
      yes just finished and Olympic distance triathlon program based on heart rate. I would be ignoring Garmin and stick with the 80/20 program and use training peaks if you want performance management. The performance management chart is great and is based on your heart rate or pace settings independent of Garmin plus the 80/20 programs can now be converted over to structured workouts in training peaks so they load correctly onto Garmin devices without the need to alter Garmin zones.

      Garmin should just stick to hardware for now until they have built a reliable system.

      The program has rest weeks built in, but if you are feeling tired it doesn’t hurt to take an extra day off and miss a session.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by chunkywizard View Post
        I believe it’s heart rate at the pace that counts that being measured by %MHR or %HRR. The watch can also use HRV to measure if you are recovered as well and you get unproductive if you are not fully recovered or tired. The algorithms are designed by FirstBeat and so find the FB sticky thread and read the information provided.

        HTH
        Thanks for the reply. Is there anywhere to see the HRV metric it uses for some of these scores in the Garmin Ecosystem? I have it turned on but don't see it anywhere. Since starting this 80/20 program my heart rate during my runs has been more consistent than ever as im consciously trying to stay in my zone. I've been reading a lot of the documents on the various metrics but it just seems as though running 80% of my runs at a perceived "easy" pace will cause these lower Garmin scores. I have my heart rate zones setup by Lactate Threshold for what its worth.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by euro26 View Post

          yes just finished and Olympic distance triathlon program based on heart rate. I would be ignoring Garmin and stick with the 80/20 program and use training peaks if you want performance management. The performance management chart is great and is based on your heart rate or pace settings independent of Garmin plus the 80/20 programs can now be converted over to structured workouts in training peaks so they load correctly onto Garmin devices without the need to alter Garmin zones.

          Garmin should just stick to hardware for now until they have built a reliable system.

          The program has rest weeks built in, but if you are feeling tired it doesn’t hurt to take an extra day off and miss a session.
          Thanks for the insight. Did you have to buy the plans separately from your TrainingPeaks subscription, are they worth it? Has the plan worked well for you? It seems hard to mentally get over running a lot slower in order to get better, especially when you see everything in Garmin Connect going down! I also struggle with sticking to the distances in their plans in the book, I generally like running 10KM per day as a lot of times the plans call for a lot less.

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          • #6
            Hi, I don't think you can see the raw HRV in Garmin, just the processed results in the FirstBeat Training metrics. Ask HermanB on the FirstBeat thread for more info

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ninan View Post

              Thanks for the insight. Did you have to buy the plans separately from your TrainingPeaks subscription, are they worth it? Has the plan worked well for you? It seems hard to mentally get over running a lot slower in order to get better, especially when you see everything in Garmin Connect going down! I also struggle with sticking to the distances in their plans in the book, I generally like running 10KM per day as a lot of times the plans call for a lot less.
              Yes the plans are seperate from training peaks subs, they are worth it to me as I self coach and use the plans to guide me.

              The 80/20 training is so much better on your body. The 20% is really hard. Have you read all his books and studies on pro athletes training and diets, this might influence your decision.

              From your example if you are just running 10km a day all the time you won’t improve as your body gets used to running 10km. It needs variation to adapt, longer runs at low intensity and some shorter runs at high intensity

              the long runs in my Olympic distance program ended up being 20km at their peak.




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              • #8
                Just to update this, I am still being told I am "Unproductive" constantly by Garmin while following the 80/20 plan. 80% of my runs are generally in Garmin "Zone 2" so I guess there is no way around it really.

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                • #9
                  I'm using the Fitzgerald 80/20 marathon training plan through TrainingPeaks, but I'm using the power based plan instead of the heart rate based plan. I essentially ignore all the Garmin numbers and just look at the ones in TrainingPeaks and the Stryd PowerCenter site. Another advantage of using PowerCenter is that it will also give one the mile splits even though one may be using a structured workout with autolap off.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ninan View Post
                    Just to update this, I am still being told I am "Unproductive" constantly by Garmin while following the 80/20 plan. 80% of my runs are generally in Garmin "Zone 2" so I guess there is no way around it really.
                    I've just finished Matt Fitzgerald's book, based on you starting this thread! I did my first run yesterday (Foundation 5) and am interested to see how the training status will work for me. It is hard to say at the moment as I've just rolled the device back to 6.10 from the latest beta - TE was 3.6, which I suspect was due to the reset, certainly didn't feel like a 3.6 run!

                    Regarding your unproductive training status. The Firstbeat algorithms are sensitive to correct setting of personal data, particularly max HR. It might be worth checking your values, just in case you are relying on default 220-age, which is not always accurate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chrisdr2 View Post

                      I've just finished Matt Fitzgerald's book, based on you starting this thread! I did my first run yesterday (Foundation 5) and am interested to see how the training status will work for me. It is hard to say at the moment as I've just rolled the device back to 6.10 from the latest beta - TE was 3.6, which I suspect was due to the reset, certainly didn't feel like a 3.6 run!

                      Regarding your unproductive training status. The Firstbeat algorithms are sensitive to correct setting of personal data, particularly max HR. It might be worth checking your values, just in case you are relying on default 220-age, which is not always accurate.
                      Very cool, interested to see how it works for you! I have my max heart rate set to 180, and my threshold is 163. Generally all my slower foundation runs can't exceed 145. I am generally getting a TE of around 2.7-2.9.

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