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  • Sampling rate

    I have a suunto t6 and decided to get the 310. What a disapointment re the sampling rate. In the user guide I read the sampling rate was every 4 sec. In reality it is not and there is no way to force the 310 to sample every 2 sec - 10 sec etc.... The sampling is so random.
    After opening the data into excel (if you import the data into training peaks you will get the same) - below is a sample of what I am speaking about:
    HR Lapse time
    163 00:04:01
    162 00:04:13
    00:04:15 (no sampling)
    160 00:04:19
    160 00:04:24
    160 00:04:34
    160 00:04:43
    160 00:04:52
    00:04:53 (no sampling)
    00:04:57 (no sampling)
    00:04:59 (no sampling)
    162 00:05:02
    159 00:05:11
    00:05:15 (no sampling)
    159 00:05:19
    156 00:05:26
    155 00:05:27
    00:05:32 (no sampling)
    157 00:05:33
    00:05:34 (no sampling)
    00:05:39 (no sampling)
    159 00:05:40
    155 00:05:47
    00:05:50 (no sampling)
    00:05:52 (no sampling)
    156 00:05:53
    00:05:57 (no sampling)
    158 00:05:59
    00:06:04 (no sampling)
    158 00:06:05
    159 00:06:11
    157 00:06:16
    00:06:21 (no sampling)
    158 00:06:22
    00:06:24 (no sampling)
    157 00:06:28
    00:06:29 (no sampling)

    ...and it goes on like that... Any fixes planed. I am so disapointed with my purchased. I even updated the software just to use the latest one. I should have bought the 305. I think and I feel that I have ripped off by Garmin in this instance.
    Last edited by waka50; 04-02-2010, 01:02 PM.

  • #2
    Yes, the FR310XT only uses "smart recording" which basically inserts a sample when it thinks that it is needed. If things like speed, direction and pulse stay the same, there's no reason to add extra samples. There are some weaknesses in the algorithm that have been discussed in other threads but for most uses it is adequate.

    The 305 has a setting which forces it to store a sample every second but that's not possible with the 310 unless you connect a cadence (or is it power?) sensor in which case the watch automatically switches to a periodical sample time. Strange but true!

    Have you seen any real problems in your case?
    Last edited by staffann4; 04-02-2010, 01:34 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      I take your point. but have a look at the following (The sample in my first post only shows time with HR.):
      159 00:05:40
      155 00:05:47

      Why such a gap? When did my HR go to 158 - 157 - 156 within 7 sec? Nothing in between.

      Garmin should either fix their algorithm or give us the choice like in the 305. It can't be hard to change the sampling rate in the software. OK a new menu needs to be inserted to allow the user to switch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Garmin should go back to providing recording rate options like with the FR305. The smart recording produces considerable accuracy issues when using WKO+. I love the 310xt for the most part, but as a trainer and coach this cutting edge device needs to be compatible with the industries best analysis software. Does anyone know if Garmin has any plans on addressing this issue?

        Comment


        • #5
          There is an entire other thread on this issue:

          https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=4556

          so this has been raised before. Not sure if Garmin plans on changing this or not, but the message has been delivered to them.

          Having said that, the smart sampling seems to work pretty well in practice.

          Comment


          • #6
            It is hard for me to understand how Garmin seems disinterested in this issue. I have quite a bit of experience with many Garmin fitness products (especially the FR305 and the Edge305/705) and have never had any problems. The 310xt, which has so much potential, has presented me with quite a few data recording issues. I have gone to many endurance sports forums trying to find a solution to my 310 problems and I can tell you that athletes and coaches are down on the 310xt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by EXERCISETHINK View Post
              It is hard for me to understand how Garmin seems disinterested in this issue. I have quite a bit of experience with many Garmin fitness products (especially the FR305 and the Edge305/705) and have never had any problems. The 310xt, which has so much potential, has presented me with quite a few data recording issues. I have gone to many endurance sports forums trying to find a solution to my 310 problems and I can tell you that athletes and coaches are down on the 310xt.
              What specific problems? As an athlete and a coach I am quite happy with the output of the 310. The results at the end of any training sessions are fine. It's all too easy to look at the sampling rate and say, "Hey, this sucks because the sampling frequency is up and down". However, the reality is that all athletes operate in HR, power or pace ranges. It is impossible to train to a single heart beat or a single second on pace. It is important to know the level of intensity during training.

              WKO+ the industry's best analysis software? Your opinion. IMHO, it's just another product. Have you considered that the problem with WKO+'s interpretation of Garmin data is WKO+'s problem?

              Smart sampling works. Period. It worked on the 305. It works on the 310.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not looking to get into a war over this, but I did have issues with data cosistency with smart recording on the 705 and I believe the same was true for the 305 (but I'm not 100% sure about that). I did turn the smart recording off on each of them and seemed to have more accurate and consistent readings. I agree that the issue may be with training peaks, but training peaks simply takes the raw data to extrapolate their information. Smart Recording collects non-linear data points and creates issues with TP. Here's the issue; Garmin states directly in the 705 unit "Smart Recording maximizes storage by recording data when it changes. For more detail Every Second can be used." and in the manual it clearly states that Every Second recording is the most accurate. I have had pace numbers off by :20 seconds per mile and Wattage off by as much as15 watts... these are huge differences. I just think the consumer should have the option.

                Comment


                • #9
                  PHILIPSHAMBROOK - If you are happy with the 310xt then stick to it.

                  I agree with exercisethink we should have the choice.

                  Today I went out with the 310 and my t6 at the same time. The t6 takes samples either every 2 sec or 10 sec. Set to 2 sec I was getting a much better sampling/info with my t6.

                  Anyway I am seriously considering to give the 310xt back and get the polar rs800cx.

                  I am a data freak and this inconsistency really annoys me.

                  P.S:
                  A friend of mine has the 305. He sent me few of his tcx files. He uses the "smart recording" mode. If the "smart recording"/inteligent mode on the 310 was similar to the 305 then I would definitely stick with the 310.
                  Last edited by waka50; 04-03-2010, 02:59 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It would be interesting if you can show us (and Garmin) the comparison between the two units and point at the weaknesses. I don't mean the sample rate difference in itself, I mean what problems you say that the smart recording leads to. Is it in the GPS track that you see differences, the speed, the heart rate or something else? Please show us - maybe some plots?

                    I agree third party site have (had) problems with smart sampling but that's nothing they can't fix if they want to. The two main swedish training site both have (although one maybe still could improve filtering).

                    I agree with you that it would be nice if Garmin let the user have the choice, but is the difference really so big that it can merit returning the watch?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EXERCISETHINK View Post
                      Garmin should go back to providing recording rate options like with the FR305. The smart recording produces considerable accuracy issues when using WKO+. I love the 310xt for the most part, but as a trainer and coach this cutting edge device needs to be compatible with the industries best analysis software. Does anyone know if Garmin has any plans on addressing this issue?
                      If you're using WKO+ then presumably you also use a powermeter? If this is the case then you get 1s sampling so there shouldn't be an accuracy issues.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EXERCISETHINK View Post
                        I'm not looking to get into a war over this, but I did have issues with data cosistency with smart recording on the 705 and I believe the same was true for the 305 (but I'm not 100% sure about that). I did turn the smart recording off on each of them and seemed to have more accurate and consistent readings. I agree that the issue may be with training peaks, but training peaks simply takes the raw data to extrapolate their information. Smart Recording collects non-linear data points and creates issues with TP. Here's the issue; Garmin states directly in the 705 unit "Smart Recording maximizes storage by recording data when it changes. For more detail Every Second can be used." and in the manual it clearly states that Every Second recording is the most accurate. I have had pace numbers off by :20 seconds per mile and Wattage off by as much as15 watts... these are huge differences. I just think the consumer should have the option.
                        There's actually a subtle point to this that's not directly related to smart vs 1 second recording.

                        When the 310xt came out, Garmin made a slight change to the way it records an activity. It used to be that at every trackpoint, both the position (lat-long) and the HR would be recorded. However, with the 310xt, this is no longer the case. A trackpoint can have lat-long without HR, or it can have HR but not lat-long.

                        This caused several of the analysis programs to initially give wrong results when analyzing 310xt data until they updated their algorithms to account for this change. I don't use TP, so I don't know if this is an issue or not, but I thought I'd mention it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Question for all you 310 users using Power meters and consequently (apparently) 1 sec recording. How long are you riding for? As I understand it, on the 305 you got around 3.5 hrs of recording in Smart Recording mode.

                          If it is the same on the 310XT, then for all of us who often do much longer events and activities, Smart Recording, as on the 305, it is useless anyway.

                          And, as noted before, I have still yet to see any real reason for it. Garmin have acknowledged there is a problem with the 'tracking' on the 310XT, but this is not related to the sampling interval. So, apart from that, what real use is it? Collecting data for data's sake is not an answer. Data is only useful if you use it. As I (and I would assume most other coaches) do not have athletes worried about their numbers every second of every activity, I still fail to see any real value.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PHILIPSHAMBROOK View Post
                            Garmin have acknowledged there is a problem with the 'tracking' on the 310XT
                            Which leads me to the follow-up question: "when is the next firmware update for the 310 due?"
                            DISTANCE: 3000M___ - 5000M___ - 10000M__ - 21098M_ - 42195M_ --- Current VDOT: ?
                            PB______: 10:50,09 - 18:40,20 - 38:39,00 - 1:25:39 - 3:10:26

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ALAALA View Post
                              Which leads me to the follow-up question: "when is the next firmware update for the 310 due?"
                              Must be due, it's been over 3 months since the last one.

                              Comment

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