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Garmin's various ways of measuring, calculating, & tracking resting heart rate (RHR)

This was discussed earlier this year with respect to the Forerunner 235 ">here[/u][/URL]. Since then, it seems Garmin has been tweaking their software, at least on a couple of newer watches.

RHR on Watch Different from RHR on Garmin Connect
Over the past 7 days, the Garmin Connect (GC) site shows my RHR as: 36, 37, 50, 45, 36, 40, 41. The 7-day average on the GC site is 41 (see attached: ). But the "RHR" number on my my Forerunner 735XT watch always has a higher number, eg, today this has been 44 and 46. The watch screen that shows the RHR for each of the last 7 days also has a higher number than the GC site for each of the 7 days and for the 7-day average.

Apparently this is because the RHR function on the watch is the lowest average rate measured over a 1-minute interval, whereas the larger, changing number displayed on the watch face next to the heart symbol is an instantaneous measure.

DC Rainmaker noticed the same thing on the vívoactive HR:

What’s not fine is the above (click to zoom). In this case, as I type this paragraph it shows me at a HR of 53bpm. And the lowest HR value it shows for the four hour time block is 49bpm. Yet as you see above – somehow my RHR value is 55bpm. Huh? ">link[/b][/url]

In an e-mail with them on the topic late last week, they allude to it (on some devices) being the lowest one-minute average. But, then they explain how it’s a bit of a mess because the metrics don’t align up (Garmin Connect Mobile, the device’s HR sensor display, or the HR widget screen). Apparently it’s on the list to address…still. ">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
">link[/b][/url]

In an e-mail with them on the topic late last week, they allude to it (on some devices) being the lowest one-minute average. But, then they explain how it’s a bit of a mess because the metrics don’t align up (Garmin Connect Mobile, the device’s HR sensor display, or the HR widget screen). Apparently it’s on the list to address…still. ">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
">here[/u][/URL]. Since then, it seems Garmin has been tweaking their software, at least on a couple of newer watches.

RHR on Watch Different from RHR on Garmin Connect
Over the past 7 days, the Garmin Connect (GC) site shows my RHR as: 36, 37, 50, 45, 36, 40, 41. The 7-day average on the GC site is 41 (see attached: ). But the "RHR" number on my my Forerunner 735XT watch always has a higher number, eg, today this has been 44 and 46. The watch screen that shows the RHR for each of the last 7 days also has a higher number than the GC site for each of the 7 days and for the 7-day average.

Apparently this is because the RHR function on the watch is the lowest average rate measured over a 1-minute interval, whereas the larger, changing number displayed on the watch face next to the heart symbol is an instantaneous measure.

DC Rainmaker noticed the same thing on the vívoactive HR:

What’s not fine is the above (click to zoom). In this case, as I type this paragraph it shows me at a HR of 53bpm. And the lowest HR value it shows for the four hour time block is 49bpm. Yet as you see above – somehow my RHR value is 55bpm. Huh? ">link[/b]
[/url]

In an e-mail with them on the topic late last week, they allude to it (on some devices) being the lowest one-minute average. But, then they explain how it’s a bit of a mess because the metrics don’t align up (Garmin Connect Mobile, the device’s HR sensor display, or the HR widget screen). Apparently it’s on the list to address…still. ">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
">link[/b][/url]

In an e-mail with them on the topic late last week, they allude to it (on some devices) being the lowest one-minute average. But, then they explain how it’s a bit of a mess because the metrics don’t align up (Garmin Connect Mobile, the device’s HR sensor display, or the HR widget screen). Apparently it’s on the list to address…still. ">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
">link[/b][/url][/indent]

Although the lower instantaneous numbers stroke my ego, I think the 1-minute average is a good technological/software solution since it emulates the traditional human manner of checking one's pulse over a period of time. An instantaneous reading was previously not very common (except on an EKG) and I think there are probably anomalous readings introduced by the the newer optical wrist monitoring technology (eg, a loose watch band moving around).

Others might prefer the lowest instantaneous reading since it better fits the standard medical definition of the RHR reading being the lowest measured rate while awake and different fitness monitors may be using various algorithms for calculating RHR.

I assume most people would at least like Garmin to standardize their way of measuring, calculating, and tracking RHR on their various watches, apps, and websites. The instantaneous numbers are what is being tracked on the graphs on the watch and on GC, but the lowest measured RHR on the watch face is frequently lower than the lowest number recorded on GC (even when frequently syncing). The 7-day graph of the daily RHR on the watch is also considerably higher with the 7-day graph of the daily RHR on GC.

I would be interested in hearing Garmin's current thinking on this or anyone else's thoughts on this issue.
  • Does anyone know how to get all of the raw HR data from non-activities? i.e. just the HR throughout the day.


    I guess there must be other ways, but I've been using Apple Health to get to those.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    Just had a look on the Garmin Connect mobile app (on iOS) and the data differs from the connect website. The mobile app is still in line with what I was previously getting on connect. How odd.
  • Just as a heads-up - I did a late night run the other day and forgot to untighten the band that additional notch before I went to bed. Woke up to an estimated sleeping RHR of 50, compared to the 63-64 I usually get since Garmin changed their algorithm. Guess my blood flow was restricted enough to skew the results (will have to do a verification run taking the HR strap to bed), but it indicates that at least for consistency the band should be tightened to the same notch every night.
  • Adding to the mystery... on my summary page for activity tracking in the small box that shows the HR chart for the day it has a different resting HR than what is shown when I go to the "full page" view. Today it says 37 on the small view but when change to full page view it shows 43. Also odd is the HR graph of full page clearly shows lots of points when my hr is at 37. Yesterday shows resting hr at 31 on small view, 44 on full page. Prior day 34 small, 43 full. Ave resting is consistent between small and full views each day. Makes me wonder if the full view display of resting is actually a bug rather than an algorithm change...
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    We appreciate the discussion that has been going on in this thread, and we can understand the frustration with inconsistent RHR values when viewing Garmin Connect and Garmin Connect Mobile. Currently there is an issue where GCM is not display the correct RHR value in the app. This is being worked on and should be corrected in the next GCM app update.

    We have also escalated an issue where Garmin Connect is not displaying the correct RHR value that is shown in the watch's Heart Rate Widget.

    We do apologize for any confusion or inconvenience while this issues are resolved.
  • 335

    Joseph, thanks for the update -- appreciate your help!

    Currently there is an issue where GCM is not display the correct RHR value in the app.


    Though not sure I follow that last part ^^^

    In the GCM app, if I tap on "Help" on the "All Day Heart Rate" screen it says...

    Resting heart rate represents the lowest observed heart rate for a particular day. This will typically happen when you are sleeping. Resting heart rate can be an indicator of your overall fitness. Over time, as you become more physically fit, you can expect to see your resting heart rate numbers decrease.


    This is interesting for at least two reasons. First, at least to my eyeballs, the 7d graph is displaying the exact same RHR that is displayed beneath the graph (day by day). So no conflict there. Those values also match up well with the display for my HR in a single day -- the lowest value I can find ends up as the RHR for that day.

    Second, this matches exactly the definition on the help page (EDIT: I suppose we could eliminate all the confusion by saying, "The RHR method has been updated, but neither the GCM app nor the corresponding help file have been updated yet"). I tried to politely rant the other day that using a single reading as RHR is a problem due to sensor noise. In my case for example, the single values picked as RHRs for each day are almost certainly not accurate readings. But what matters is the values are exactly what's defined.

    What shows up on the Garmin Connect website for RHR, on the other hand, looks like a completely different number (~70 on the website vs. ~55 on the mobile app).

    Before I wrap up, one last comment about what I'm seeing for RHR on the website: in a sense, 70 for my RHR actually makes some sense. That is the correct value for my HR when I am quietly sitting, in other words, it's my default HR when I'm not active. However, that's not my RHR as it's conventionally defined, which is m more like 60 and what I get when I'm laying on the couch for 15 minutes, or what I get by checking shortly after I wake up in the morning. Either way, I'm curious how it's computed for the website -- that value actually corresponds to a real number I recognize (just not my RHR).

    Thanks again!

    -Matt
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    @gadgetrants,

    Thanks for your post, and I am sorry, I was not very clear regarding that point. The specific issue with GCM is that the 7 day Average Resting Heart Rate value that is currently being shown in Garmin Connect Mobile is not matching what is on the device, or what is in Garmin Connect online. GCM is currently not pulling the the correct 7 day average RHR value from the server.

    There was a recent change in the way that the devices started recording and displaying Resting Heart Rate, where instead of just displaying the lowest value for the day, it is an average while at rest. This caused some disconnects between Garmin Connect in terms of which value was correct since users were seeing multiple numbers which are currently being worked on.

    We continue to provide user feedback to the device teams to make them aware of issues the users are seeing, especially when the numbers are not lining up as we expect.

    We appreciate the feedback and continued discussion.
  • Wonderful! Thanks for the quick answer (and approval of my post!).

    There was a recent change in the way that the devices started recording and displaying Resting Heart Rate, where instead of just displaying the lowest value for the day, it is an average while at rest. This caused some disconnects between Garmin Connect in terms of which value was correct since users were seeing multiple numbers which are currently being worked on.


    This clears up A LOT for me. It means that the number I'm seeing on the Garmin Connect website is in fact the same HR I see "at rest", when I go in for a physical, etc. To be consistent with my comments a few days back, "It's not really RHR but I'm sure it's a stable measure of my health." I'm also really happy to report that it's being measured in a reliable way (WHATEVER method Garmin is actually using, LOL). 70 BPM is an old friend of mine! (And a big fat "whatever" to those of you who rest at 60 or 50 or... :mad:)

    We continue to provide user feedback to the device teams to make them aware of issues the users are seeing...
    We appreciate the feedback and continued discussion.
    On that ^^^ note let me reiterate, I share others' concern 100% that changes such as these were not broadcast to users. If a core algorithm changes, it needs to happen in broad daylight. And if the algorithm details are viewed as proprietary...please tell your development and product teams that the message should at least be something like, "Based on user input, we have made some substantial changes to the way that RHR is calculated. Please go to the following website (or forum page) to provide feedback." Doing it this way was not a good strategy (or forgive me if it was broadcast and I somehow didn't see the memo!).

    EDIT: Lo and behold...speak of the devil...droidforums.net just overhauled it's website today. It's a different type of change, but here is the kind of tone you want to strike when you update something that affects your user base:

    Of course, during the transition phase of changing over to the new custom template, there might be a few hiccups too, so be sure to sound off if there is something missing or out of place. As always, we want to evolve DroidForums to make sure it stays your favorite internet home for Android related news, discussions and entertainment!


    -Matt
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    @GFM1011
    How do I get you to be the mod covering my thread about VAHR BMR calorie changes? :)


    @Gadgetrants knocked it out of the park with his/her comments but I think there are a couple more points to be made. I’m not trying to hijack this to discuss BMR, but to ask for the same kind of transparent customer communication happen for all changes, and not much in arrears.


    …There was a recent change in the way that the devices started recording and displaying Resting Heart Rate, where instead of just displaying the lowest value for the day, it is an average while at rest…


    Above you have finally laid out the new definition you are using to record RHR, although it’s not clear whether “at rest” includes sleep time or not. (Fitbit for instance specifically measures it during waking times for example). Can you clarify?

    …It's not really RHR but I'm sure it's a stable measure of my health." I'm also really happy to report that it's being measured in a reliable way (WHATEVER method Garmin is actually using, LOL)…



    Major point just made here. There are a zillion metrics recorded by your devices, and the devices are valuable only for the fact they produce data…and data of sufficient quality to be actionable. Users may feel that RHR, to pick a metric, may not be measured the way they would measure it, but as long as it is defined for us and measured consistently over time per the definition- that’s the most important thing!

    Why? If my true RHR is say 45 but Garmin tells me 60, that’s fine. If consistent, all I need to do is see whether RHR increases, decreases or stays the same over time. From the changes I know whether I’m improving my fitness or not. I personally don’t follow RHR. But I am having a similar problem with BMR which I do care about and gadgetrants comments equally apply to BMR as a metric. Unfortunately, no one has offered any sorts of explanations on that issue as @GFM1011 has here.

    …. let me reiterate, I share others' concern 100% that changes such as these were not broadcast to users. If a core algorithm changes, it needs to happen in broad daylight. And if the algorithm details are viewed as proprietary...please tell your development and product teams that the message should at least be something like, "Based on user input, we have made some substantial changes to the way that RHR is calculated. Please go to the following website (or forum page) to provide feedback." Doing it this way was not a good strategy …


    Amen! Nailed it again. I could not say it better. Garmin really is awful at this sort of communication. I am fighting for info about BMR changes on the VAHR, which Garmin just added 20% to without announcing the change to anyone, not even internal people who I reached on the phone at customer support. All that is known is that I posted a thread about it and 20+ users said they saw the same change occur. Help desk knows nothing. Eventually a mod cryptically posted that yes, it went up 20-25% with a sw update and apologized for neglecting to even put it in the release notes. Beyond that none of us know anything- no explanation- no explanation of the impact of the change on total calories, no update to the release notes, no update to the help desk.

    Again I don’t want to hijack the content of this thread re: RHR. But @GFM1011 – how do we get it through the thick management skulls at Garmin within the Product Group that it is software 101 to do the following???

    1) Tell the user base about any changes/updates

    2) Elaborate on what changed and why, especially if it’s an important metric (as opposed to “we fixed the bad button on screen C”)

    3) Notify us either in advance or at least simultaneously with the software change- and do so by more than a forum post since 99.99% of users never would come to the forum.

    Since you appear at least in tone to understand that the user base should be informed of changes, and done timely, I’m begging you to escalate the general philosophy/issue of what Garmin corporate deems worthy of telling users- and propose that barring trade secrets you just be transparent and timely- it’s not hard!


    We continue to provide user feedback to the device teams to make them aware of issues the users are seeing, especially when the numbers are not lining up as we expect.


    This is a start. But what we need is not periodic feedback, but rather comprehensive coverage. Your forum posters are the most invested and most likely to find issues. Shouldn’t every forum at least be monitored for issues that bubble up so that user feedback gets to the correct people?

    Also, while I don’t know the composition of the device teams, speaking as a Product Manager for web/apps/software by profession, communication around software/app/web updates is ultimately the responsibility of Product Management. They are the business people making the decisions. They know what they are having changed on their devices or software. They need to propagate that info everywhere. So if they are not part of the device teams, again I BEG you to relay this post and philosophy up the chain to Product, since they (in the norm of SW world) are the ones responsible for deciding that there is to be a change in the first place.

    I am so fed up with this philosophy of not caring to inform customers about critical metric changes or known bugs (along with the bugs coming with every release on every watch or app) that if Fitbit had chest strap functionality, I’d toss my 2 month old Garmin in the trash and go fitbit on the spot.

    And lastly on a more constructive note. @gadgetrants linked a website that told you what was changing. I have some more examples for you. Here are two items from Fitbit and some from Waze. Read even the tone and the slight additional detail in there and you will know the difference between terse Garmin not-saying-much and Fitbit giving just enough more detail and positive spin to make it clear they are communicating and valuing customers. This is how it’s done!

    1) Now this is how to write release notes- actually these aren’t release notes- these are more like consumer updates than techie release notes. Check out the tone and how much better a communication this is: http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/1372/?q=calories&l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1

    2) This article from Fitbit, which clearly explains in advance a change to their active minutes displays. (jump to last paragraph labeled “WHAT HAPPENED TO VERY ACTIVE MINUTES?”) So much better written!
    http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/1379/?q=calories&l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1

    3) From the Waze app: they list known issues in current version as they find them- wowza.
    https://support.google.com/waze/known-issues/6101917?hl=en&ref_topic=6273402


    4) Here waze comments about a new update they shipped: “If you've downloaded the new version (4.0) you may notice things look a little different. Follow the steps below for some quick guidance on how to use some of your Waze favorite features on the new version.” Doesn't that sound friendly?

    https://support.google.com/waze/answer/6314373?hl=en&ref_topic=6262587

    Hopefully you can advocate for a trasparent communication policy across the board. Thanks.
  • Oh boy, I just realized: darnit, we don't have a +1/LIKE system!!! That ^^^ was a great post!

    BTW I'm a guy. :)

    -Matt