Configure Basecamp suggestions..

This means that duplicate names are only a problem in BaseCamp (and MapSource).

FYI my 76CSx doesn't allow duplicate names. As you say the Oregon does. Not sure about my 1490T but names are long in that so it's not an issue.

Ok.. My error.. I was reading the posts and thought to go back and see if there is more than one "Rainbows End". One that was under the Escapees Campgrounds and then the one I was trying to put into State/Texas list.

Sorry about that. But that is why I am on this forum.. Always nice to get input from others.

Is there a way to keep the sort on the lists contents to name and not symbol?

BC

Is there a way to keep the sort on the lists contents to name and not symbol?

BC

Yes, up top, click
> View > Sort By > Symbol or Name.

Yep been there. There is also a selection in the list area. Only when I restart BC it goes back to Symbol.

BC

Yep been there. There is also a selection in the list area. Only when I restart BC it goes back to Symbol.

BC

I changed the list to sort by name, shut down & restarted BC and sort by name was still selected.
Switched back to symbols, closed & restarted BC and sort by symbol was still selected.

I have WinXP SP3 and the latest BC ver4.0.5

See here: http://garmin-mapsource.wikispaces.com/BC_Database for a better organization of this information
-ceej

Edited 01/02/13: updated 8 with right-click info
Edited 12/30/12: addition of 6a, 6b, other minor changes/additions.

I was a software developer/manager for a few decades. What follows is my own external description ('specification' if you will) of some of BC. I know nothing of the actual internal implementation. But an understanding of the 'spec' can help one understand and use BC better, and hopefully with less frustration. With that said, I believe the following to be true:

1. BC is a database system. It consists of a number of 'objects' which are stored in the database and managed by the software. A 'point' or 'location' is one kind of object (e.g. waypoint). It has a name (of undetermined but finite length) and (I suspect) a lat/lon. There are other data associated with this kind of object (open its Properties to see them). I believe that 'route' and 'track' are also objects (which contain references to at least two location objects). Those three object types (location, routes, tracks) are fundamental items. I suspect that Lists and Folders are also objects in the database (as 'view' or 'container' objects). I'm sure there are other objects, but that is enough for now.
Note that objects of the same type (e.g. location, route, list, ...) must have unique names. However, an object of one type (e.g. 'list') can have the same name as an object of a different type (e.g. 'folder' or 'location').

2. Everything that you see in the bottom left pane of BC when you click on MyCollection is real; you are viewing the real individual items/objects you have created and that are in the BC database. You can think of MyCollection as the view of the entire database.
2a. Items/Objects *only* reside in MyCollection. They are not physically anywhere else. (more on this in item 3).
2a. Right-click on any item in MyCollection and the delete option is for complete removal of that item from the BC database.

3. A List is a set of links to items in MyCollection (although you could create a list and link everything from MyCollection into it). When you select and drag a location/route/track from MyCollection into a list, you are neither 'moving' nor 'copying' that object. You are creating a 'link' in the list which points to the real object in MyCollection. Regardless of in how many lists an object may seem to appear, there is really only one instance and it resides in MyCollection.
Note, list names cannot be duplicated. That is, a list cannot have the same name as any other list, regardless of which folders the lists happen to be in. But a list can have the same name as a location, route, or folder.
3a. When you click on a list, what you see in the bottom left are the objects in MyCollection which have links in that list. You might think of the list as a 'view' or 'restricted view' of those objects in the database.
3b. When you have a list selected and are working "in" that list (i.e. creating waypoints and routes), BC actually creates the objects in MyCollection and automatically creates the link for that object in the list in which you are working.

4. A Folder appears to be a set of links to Lists and/or other Folders.
The same thing applies to Folder names as applies to List names. A folder can have the same name as a location, route, or list.
4a. When you click on a folder, what you see in the bottom left are all the (low level: location, route, track) objects in all of the lists and sub-folders contained in that folder.
Again, think of it as a view into the database. Suppose you have lists named for Cities of Starbucks locations within those Cities. You might create Folders with names of States, and within each State folder have folders with names of Counties, and within those County folders have the City lists. If you click on a state folder, you will see all the Starbucks locations within that state. If you click on a county folder you see only the Starbucks locations in that county. And if you click on a city list you will see only the Starbucks locations in that city.

5. Items that you see when you click on a list or folder are merely links to the real data items.
If you right click on the item you will see two delete options - one "from this list" (which merely removes the object's link from the list) and the other a permanent delete of the object from the database (and correspondingly from every list in which it appears).
In my experience so far, BC will ask for confirmation for each delete, telling you which it is. But in any case, be careful until you really get used to it!

6. Lists and Folders do *not* actually partition MyCollection. No item in MyCollection actually resides in any list or folder. The only things in lists and folders are *links* to the real data items (waypoints, routes). However, there is an option when deleting a list to delete all items which are unique to that list (i.e. not in any other list). This does mean that you can create "temporary favorites" (my term) in a list, for route definition or whatever, and then delete them all when deleting the list.

6a. There is a difference between how Lists and Folders are treated and how locations/routes/tracks are treated. It appears that Lists and Folders can only appear in a single location in their hierarchy. That is, if you select and drag a list from Folder A to Folder B, then the list is actually moved. Unlike a location/route/track, a list cannot appear in multiple folders. So if you have a set of locations that you want to be a part of every new trip that you create (e.g. "Home" and all your relatives houses), you can create and put them in a list called "Default_Locations". But when you create the list/folder for your new trip, you cannot just drag the Default_Locations list there. You have to select Default_Locations, then select all of its contents, then drag that selection to your new list/folder.
6b. Also, since a list cannot contain another list, if you *do* drag List X to List Y, then List Y will turn into Folder Y (the icon changes). I think that this shows that the implementation of Lists and Folders is essentially the same. Perhaps Garmin introduced the concept of List separate from Folder indicates that they plan to offer more List functions later (e.g. a "copy contents" operation that could be used with the Default_Locations list above). Note, this is my conjecture only.

7. The Unlisted Data folder is a 'system folder' which contains links to objects which are *only* in MyCollection and *not in any other list*. It is a quick way to find lost or orphaned objects that perhaps are supposed to be in one or more lists, or which were supposed to have been deleted but were not.

8. No Copies of Objects
In a computer file system, you can copy a file from one folder to another, and have two of them, each separate and distinct. You can change one without affecting the other. Not in BC. You do not copy an item from MyCollection into any list. Only links are made. So if you edit an item anywhere (in a list or in MyCollection), then the change is seen *everywhere*.

To get two distinct objects that are 'identical' (i.e. contain the same data values for all their properties) you have to create each of them as separate items. For Example:
a. enter your address in the find address box.
b. create a waypoint from what it finds - call it HOME
c. clear the find box
d. enter your address in the find address box again.
e. create a waypoint from what it finds - call it Home (names are case sensitive)
You now have two distinct waypoints with different names, both of which point to the same place (have the same GPS coordinates).
But as far as BC is concerned, they are different items (objects in programming or database parlance). You can edit them independently; you can delete one without affecting the other. You can put both of them in the same list.

8a. BC does give you and easier way. Right click on an object and you should see options: Copy, Duplicate. Copy works like Copy/Paste; change to another list/folder and paste the objects link there. You have not created a new object. Duplicate automatically creates the new object in the 'current location' (folder/list) and gives it a modified/unique name (generally "Name" becomes "Name1".

I have been a little loose in my terminology (e.g. point, location, waypoint), certainly not to the standard of a formal spec. And there are some (minor, I believe) 'holes' in my description above. I suspect that there are objects in the database which do not appear in the bottom left pane (e.g. via points and shaping points) but which are in fact part of objects which do appear there (i.e. routes and tracks). But things like that should not be a problem. Knowledge and understanding of the basic elements and relationships should enable users to organize and manage their data easier and to discover new ways of getting results in BC.

I hope the above is useful (and accurate at this high level).
-ceej

I hope the above is useful (and accurate at this high level).
-ceej

Wow, this would clear up a LOT of confusion among BC newbies, especially those who came from years of MapSource! Nice analysis.

(If only newbies would read it.....):confused:

(If only newbies would read it.....):confused:

Of course they won't. Just look at these threads

Can't update maps nuvi 50LM
Garmin map updater says "Bad product key entered" but never asks for one
2013.30 Not Ready Yet?

The GPS newbies are continually posting the same complaint over and over against despite being told the issue. They can't even be bothered reading the threads for the most part.

Never a truer word spoken :D :mad:

Of course they won't. They can't even be bothered reading the threads for the most part.

Well, I DO have SOME sympathy for most of them......I have probably spent upwards of 500 hours in the last year reading the Montana and Basecamp threads and the Wikispaces.....I can do that because I'm retired and suffer from technophilia.:p