BaseCamp

We are very much aware that the find feature could use improvement.

However, please keep your feedback civil and constructive, or I will just delete it in the future.

While he lacked cilility, his constuctive remark of bringing back Mapsource was right on the mark! I've been fighting with BaseCamp for 6-7 months now and still go back to MS because BC is so frustrating. And it made a MESS of my files!

As the OP in the thread https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=22261, I also sympathise with the sentiments. I repeat the points I made then: Without proper address, particularly post code, search, Basecamp is effectively useless - and that is before one gets to how slow and cumbersome it is, even on an i7 970 with 6Gb Ram.
Although it was suggested in that thread that the developers were aware of the problem and that a remedy was forthcoming, nothing has happened.
Instead the issue has been raised by others with a similar promise of remedy, but no action, see:https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=26005.

And while I'm at it may I again raise the question why Garmin *insists* on installing all software to a default location, without any option being offered to the user. Does no one use a data drive or non default paths?

And, finally, why is this site so unfriendly to browsers other than IE: the site won't let me post unless I use IE - not even when I am using IETab or similar.

Given the period that has elapsed since I first raised these issues I am one very unhappy bunny. PLEASE bring back MapSource!

And, finally, why is this site so unfriendly to browsers other than IE: the site won't let me post unless I use IE - not even when I am using IETab or similar.

Huh? I have been using various versions of Firefox on Windows and Safari on the Mac to access the site for years. No problems whatsoever.

And, finally, why is this site so unfriendly to browsers other than IE: the site won't let me post unless I use IE - not even when I am using IETab or similar.

I use Firefox, and it's working just fine for me.

I am not trying to disregard your other comments, but there isn't much more I can say other than that we are aware of the short-comings in our find functionality and will try to improve it in future releases.

I use Firefox, and it's working just fine for me.

I am not trying to disregard your other comments, but there isn't much more I can say other than that we are aware of the short-comings in our find functionality and will try to improve it in future releases.

I think the point that most users are trying to convince Garmin of is:
BaseCamp is a fundamentally flawwed program that no longer suits the needs of us, the users. What we are collectively trying to illustrate is that We need you to return to development on the Mapsource product, or completely redesign BaseCamp so that it doesn't behave like iTunes.

In other words, we (at least I) think you (Garmin) are not only disregarding our comments, we don't think you're developing a product that will ever fulfill our needs.

That is why we (at least I) think keep making pleas to return to sanity. Obviously the comments are disregarded, but if I stop making them, we (at least I) are convinced you will assume we have deemed the product acceptable.

IT'S NOT.

That's a bit harsh. Basecamp is more capable in many areas than Mapsource. Yes, it took me a while to get up to speed on it, but now I am I wouldn't want to go back to Mapsource. I still have it on my PC, but have only rarely touched it in the last few months :)

That's a bit harsh. Basecamp is more capable in many areas than Mapsource. Yes, it took me a while to get up to speed on it, but now I am I wouldn't want to go back to Mapsource. I still have it on my PC, but have only rarely touched it in the last few months :)

How capable would MapSource be if Garmin had put the same development resources into it as they did BaseCamp? I'm a primarily a Mac user and yes, I know the two BaseCamps are much different, but I still have to keep Windows around on my Mac because Mac BaseCamp is missing some key functionality. Windows BaseCamp is even worse. There isn't even a common workflow between the two.

Had BaseCamp started out with all the functionality MapSource has and added from there this discussion would not be happening.

Had BaseCamp started out with all the functionality MapSource has and added from there this discussion would not be happening.

Ok, I'll add my 2c into this discussion.

Some of this may be technical but I'll try and explain it simply.

Firstly all this is my opinion as a hardware/software developer with over 25yrs of experience. However I've never worked for Garmin or had any contact with them except as a customer. In short I know as much as anyone else on this board but my opinions reflect my real-world experience in the tech world.

MapSource is over a decade old. It has been modified, over that period, to support newer devices and technologies as they were developed. It is therefore a mash of old and new and is most likely a horror to maintain/modify ("Spaghetti Code"). To put it another way--its time was up just like an old car or house. I've had to make the same decision many times in my career.

My guess is that given the choice to rewrite MapSource or develop a new product (BaseCamp) and add new features the latter course was chosen. Also, and this is technical, it was decided to write BaseCamp (on the PC) in .NET rather than as a native application. .NET is an interpreted language (like Java or BASIC) and is therefore much slower. Of course with many users owning dual/quad core processor machines with megabytes of RAM and hundreds of gigabyte hard drives this isn't seen as a problem. The philosophy in the software industry (not just Garmin) is to just upgrade to newer faster hardware. Just look at Microsoft--they do/say the same thing.

Another issue is that the user interface design of BaseCamp (lists/folders vs files) is completely different requiring a different workflow. One can argue the merits of the two approaches but the decision has already been made by Garmin so its academic.

I don't know the internal structure of Garmin, and how they do their development, but I'm sure Falagar and others are doing the best they can given certain constraints. They may well pass criticism, expressed here, onto management who may or may not accept it. That's just the way corporations work (I've had my own run-ins with management over the years). Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's life.

Finally, and I've expressed this in many posts, I personally prefer MapSource for a numbers of reasons. Others prefer BaseCamp. In my opinion much of this is personal preference although some newer features (e.g custom map support) are the reason. Each to their own

PS: MapSource can be used with many newer models if you want to take the time and trouble to extract/use the GPX files that many units create. That's what I do.

Ok, I'll add my 2c into this discussion.


PS: MapSource can be used with many newer models if you want to take the time and trouble to extract/use the GPX files that many units create. That's what I do.

Thanks for the analysis Stuart.

Also I have been able to open TCX files directly with MapSource 6.16.3, straight out of my 705 if I want. I do not need to convert to GPX.

FIT files on the other hand are totally useless on my computer. :(

I don't know the internal structure of Garmin, and how they do their development, but I'm sure Falagar and others are doing the best they can given certain constraints. They may well pass criticism, expressed here, onto management who may or may not accept it. That's just the way corporations work (I've had my own run-ins with management over the years). Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's life.

I agree that this is likely.

I hope they understand that at least one customer is looking for an alternative. Whether it is a Garmin product or not at this point is less and less important.

I know I'm not alone. I doubt I'm even in the minority.