BaseCamp 3.3.0.3 Beta available

[Warning, if you don't like to read unappreciative rants, skip this post. .. Please. ..... Seriously.]

I've done a little more testing on Basecamp's categories in 3.3.03beta. It's nice that there is a way to load them from the device. But it sort of goes downhill from there.

Although the categorized waypoints are all nicely listed in their lists with the lists named the same as the categories were, there are still issues:

You've still got it wrong. The only reason to pull the categorized waypoints in from the device to the PC is to manage them more easily than you can on the device.

They are still a major pain in the butt to work with in Basecamp 3.3.03. Because....

Basecamp has it exactly backwards. Categories are a property of a waypoint, not the other way round.

When I'm working with waypoints I want to work with waypoints. That is, when I'm adding/editing a waypoint I just want to add/change the category(ies) in that waypoint's properties. When there are multiple categories assigned, I don't want to have to go chasing through a bunch of lists to see if I've managed to add it to/delete it from all relevant lists.

When I want to know if a waypoint has the desired category I want to check that waypoint's properties for the category, not go hunting through all the lists to find the "category" list(s) it's supposed to be assigned to and then look in that list to see if it's listed.

The way it's now implemented in Basecamp there really are no categories. That is, there is still no way to treat categories as properties of a waypoint. You've just given us more lists to try to manage and a semi-smart import routine to add names to those lists on a one-shot basis. In the overall management of waypoints it buys very little.

It mostly just adds to the nightmare of list management that already exists. In the latest release we now have the ability to add folders. This is a good thing. But the major reason folders had to be added was to partially tame the list management nightmare.

To make "category" list management easier I can segregate the "category" lists into a "Categories" folder. So now I've just added one more level of things I have to hunt through when I want to try to manage the category(ies) of a single waypoint.

I still don't understand why you folks are so strongly resisting simply putting categories back into the waypoint properties where they belong. It's not just that Mapsource defines them that way. The GPX structure also defines them as a waypoint property. And if you do a proper data definition of them that's where they'll always end up, e.g. there's a really really good reason that's where they ended up in the first place!!

You're already looking at the waypoint properties in the data when you create and assign the list. Why is it such a big deal with you to force some completely different paradigm rather than simply copying the categories across IN the waypoint properties as they already exist in the device or the GPX file???

This is one of those situations where it seems you could quite properly be accused of trying to be different for nothing more than the sake of being different. Or because it's easier for the developers to implement. It's certainly not making it easier for the user. It's a workaround, not a solution, and not a very good one at that. :mad:

...ken...

Symbols are being ignored in waypoints

The symbols still don't come across when you transfer waypoints from your device into Basecamp. So you have to go into each list and re-assign the symbols manually.

This is a bug because symbols are actually a waypoint property in Basecamp. When the symbols assigned on the device or in a GPX file match Basecamp's symbol list they should be included in the waypoint properties once Basecamp has loaded them.

...ken...

Successfully imported almost 400 Lists at one time into my collection without issue. Would really appreciate a new feature in the product to allow multi-select on lists or alternatively direct import into a selected target folder. Extremely painful to organize bulk Lists one at a time :( .

We do want to add importing into a folder instead of My Collection.

We'd also like to add multi-select for lists/folders but because of the way our application currently works this is somewhat complicated to do.

So importing into a folder will hopefully happen somewhat soon (but most likely not in 3.3), I am not sure about multi-select.

[Warning, if you don't like to read unappreciative rants, skip this post. .. Please. ..... Seriously.]

...

You can check the Lists tab for a waypoint to see if it is in a certain list/category. So no hunting is necessary.

At some point we'd like to add the feature to be able to add a category to a waypoint in that tab as well.

The symbols still don't come across when you transfer waypoints from your device into Basecamp. So you have to go into each list and re-assign the symbols manually.

This is a bug because symbols are actually a waypoint property in Basecamp. When the symbols assigned on the device or in a GPX file match Basecamp's symbol list they should be included in the waypoint properties once Basecamp has loaded them.

...ken...

Would you mind elaborating? Or give me an example gpx file where the symbol transfer does not work? BaseCamp should transfer waypoint symbols. They won't always look the same, but the gpx property should be transferred.

Would you mind elaborating? Or give me an example gpx file where the symbol transfer does not work? BaseCamp should transfer waypoint symbols. They won't always look the same, but the gpx property should be transferred.

Ooops, my bad.

Immediately after some more category testing in Basecamp beta I made a small detour to see if the 3.3.0xbeta would import general data in a .KMZ data file.

The good news is that Basecamp now imports general data, e.g waypoints, routes and tracks, in a KMZ file. Thank you!

The embarrassing news, for me, is that the categories and symbols got lost on their trip from Mapsource through Google Earth to the KMZ file and into Basecamp for the KMZ import test. Either Google Earth ignores them coming in or it drops them on the export to KMZ.

Just to be certain I checked and verified that Basecamp does indeed properly handle the symbols whether the waypoints come from the device, in a GPX file or a GDB file. If they are in the source data and match one of Basecamp's symbols they will display properly.

I'm very sorry about that. :o

Now if you could just make categories as simple to deal with..... ;)

...ken...

You can check the Lists tab for a waypoint to see if it is in a certain list/category. So no hunting is necessary.

What "lists tab"? Not only do I not see a "lists tab"; I don't see any tabs at all.

In the default view I have three panes. There is a large pane with the map displayed. There are two more stacked along the left side of the map pane. The upper one contains the Library tree with the My Collection tree and the Devices tree. The lower one lists the contents of whatever individual item I have selected in the upper pane.

No tabs.

The only change I can make is to swap the Map and Data views. All this does is stuff the map into the skinny lower left pane where the data listing was and moves the data listing into the great big pane where the map was. (For the onlookers, yes I'm aware I can change the size/shape of the panes as I please.)

Still no tabs.

Internet Explorer has tabs. Firefox has tabs. I don't ever recall finding a view in Basecamp with tabs.

What am I missing?

At some point we'd like to add the feature to be able to add a category to a waypoint in that tab as well.

That might be useful if I could figure out what you mean by "tab" in this context. :confused:

...ken...

What "lists tab"? Not only do I not see a "lists tab"; I don't see any tabs at all.

click with the right mouse button to a track, then to properties. This opens a pane on which you will find the "list" tab.

click with the right mouse button to a track, then to properties. This opens a pane on which you will find the "list" tab.

Yes, the properties dialog for each track, route, waypoint, etc. has a 'Lists' tab that displays which lists/categories it belongs to.

Thank you, German_OPA.

This comment is directed to Falagar, not at you.....

This just gets weirder all the time. ... Instead of going to all the trouble of adding a "Lists" tab to the waypoint properties dialog and putting category list names in there, why didn't you just add Categories as a waypoint property in the first place?

When or if you add the ability to add list names to the Lists tab, what if you want to add a category that there is no list for? Will the new list be automatically created and the waypoint name added to it? Or will the user have to remember to create the new list first?

How do you distinguish between "category" lists and other lists that a waypoint name appears in when a waypoint is saved back to the device? ... That is a question that applies even now, not just when or if we get the ability to add list names to the Lists tab. If a waypoint name appears in two category lists and two other lists that are used for, say, route planning, does that mean the waypoint will end up on the device with the two correct categories or is it going to end up there with four categories: two correct and two incorrect?

.... Never mind ... I`ll test it and see what happens.

...ken...