BASECAMP 5.0 (ish) coming

... Garmin (who are being beaten senseless by the smart phone apps)...

With the use of smartphones for navigation, a huge source of Garmin's revenue is collapsing. It's hard to offer $150+ (on the cheap side) devices to compete with free.

That means they have to be much more careful that what they do in remaining markets is cost effective.

Basecamp/Mapsource were likely never a source of much profit. If so, the current market makes it worse.

Well, if you need it so much, and you think others do, learn how to code and write it.You seem to think there's a ready made market. I would probably make it Open Source and give it away for free and have others join in, but you can try selling it if you want. I'd suggest Android as the target OS.

Programming is hard (really hard) and everybody wants programs for free.

(Android sucks as a target because the typical screen size is too small.)

"Too expensive" is the obvious answer.


Since none of their programming staff is currently working in Basecamp (as far as we can tell), they must be working on other stuff. So, no, they don't appear to have the staff.

A "from scratch redo" (you make it sound much easier than it is) could be a two year project for a group of 4 people. And, they might have to write two versions (one for Windows; one for MacOS). (It's roughly, a $2 million dollar project.)

For something (currently, free) that returns no direct revenue. And to replace a program that works reasonably-well for most of its current users.

Probably, only a small percentage of Garmin users use Basecamp (a few RV-ers, motorcyclists, and hikers, for the most part).

Yes I should have been more clear. They have people who are skilled enough to do it and they have enough people on hand. Of course they are busy doing lots of other things, but, this $2M is really not much VS their nice profits. They are doing very well. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/garmin-revenue-jumps-10-on-wearable-sales-2017-02-22 So they could afford to do this. ALSO I would be very willing to pay $100 for a base camp with lots more features. In fact, I might pay a recurring subscription fee. It does not need to be free.

I would argue its not IF its WHEN. Its SO OLD its bound to stop working because of some dependency on some old stuff from when Windows XP ruled the world. Its really embarrassing actually. The way it causes windows to "not responding" on tasks implies its not modern windows compliant. Its clearly only using 1 core - its single threaded. And then there are the devices - not even talking exFAT.

If you go hiking, which is a well established world wide market, you cant use a web connected device. There is little, if any service. So the device must be stand alone. The recent addition of sat phone service shows these devices are made to be used where there is no service.

It cost A LOT more to make a new hardware product then make a software. The software can also be used on many devices over a decade.

I think there is a good case here for create Base Camp 5 from scratch..

And JEEZE, Someone go uncap download speeds from Birdseye. More it to a new host with almost free bandwidth. Get speeds up to 10Mbps or 50Mbps. Thats a easy one and one person could tackle that in one day. The 1Mbps avg speed cap is ludicrous.

As the auto GPS market declines, the outdoor market where basecamp is used is a important revenue stream for Garmin and because you cant use web connected devices, these devices will continue to be a good stream. So. Updating Base Camp makes sense and could offer marketing advantages. It could bring in more money because of birdseye subscriptions and Basecamp could even be a subscription service as well. The outdoor market looks under developed to me. I think a $4M program to revitalize Basecamp makes sense.

Your argument assumes Garmin has no idea what they are doing.


It seems more likely that Garmin understands how their market works better than you (or I).

If you go hiking, which is a well established world wide market, you cant use a web connected device. There is little, if any service. So the device must be stand alone.

Phones don't have to be a "web connected device". They are just little computers (just like GPS units) but are much faster with better screens. The issue with phones is battery life and ruggedness.

The recent addition of sat phone service shows these devices are made to be used where there is no service.

They bought the "InReach" line when they bought DeLorme. They aren't phones.

It cost A LOT more to make a new hardware product then make a software. The software can also be used on many devices over a decade.

Garmin appears to mostly improve hardware products rather than make "new hardware products". The software in the "new" products seems not to change much.

Garmin did make a phone and an android handheld but I don't think those products were at all successful. (Part of the reason was because Garmin was bypassed by the smartphone industry).

Your argument assumes Garmin has no idea what they are doing.


It seems more likely that Garmin understands how their market works better than you (or I).

True dat :) I was just supplying a link in case anyone was wondering. Making a case for Base Camp in my own mind actually.

Sure, a phone would work for what i do. A Android based app I could use on any android based device would make good sense. There would need to be Basecamp for it and it would need to load all teh same maps and 3rd party content the current garmin based handhelds do. It would need to be able to handle exFAT 128/256+ size cards.

BUT.. I dont think any phone would be a good substitute tho as daylight readable is SUPER important and being very rugged and waterproof is good. Having easy to replace AA batteries is VERY handy on long excursions away from power.

Hmm.. On second thought.. No A phone wont work for me.. What Garmin has now is perfect for outdoor recreational use. If only basecamp was more modern, it would be a perfect product for my use.

It IS perfect for my use now ! hahaha.. Its AWESOME. Tiny, rugged, reliable, stable, awesome power options.. I can even get a states worth of Birdseye Topo and sat into it along with some custom GIS sourced maps along with custom GPX POIs, citi navigator NT and other stuff. Its a AWESOME platform.. Nothing else even close.. They own the market...

I just wish for more :)

I do want to be clear. I LOVE my 64st.. Its a huge part of my recreational life. I could not live without it. Its also critical for my work when im out of town as it has City Nav NT on it. So when I get in a cab, I know where I am and know how to get there. Its also key once im at a work location as City Nav is just awesome for so many reasons. With Birdseye loaded to I can see around where I am. So its also killer for work.. I also use it when im home and getting around my own city. I suppose the only thing I would like to have is a small speaker on it so it could speak. I cant live without it. I dont use any other navigational product as its way better then any app for a phone. City Nav NT has been correct so many times with a cab driver is using apple or some andriod app or even google. City Nav NV is really good. I see it in action against other things all the time.

So why im so passionate about getting Basecamp working better is because I love the 64st so much and its so important for me.

I get that the 64 is better suited for your purpose than a smartphone is. I'm just trying to point out that the two things are, basically, very similar devices.

It's fine that you want Basecamp to be improved but realize that you are using it in a rather extreme manner.

City Nav NT has been correct so many times with a cab driver is using apple or some andriod app or even google. City Nav NV is really good. I see it in action against other things all the time.

This is just a data problem.

It's fine that you want Basecamp to be improved but realize that you are using it in a rather extreme manner.

Wouldn't anyone who was using it outdoors like all the things im doing with it ? Having full sat images and hi-rez updated topos for anywhere they went ? Also having it dual use so its also got City Nav to get them anywhere they needed to go ? Super rugged, easily powered, no need for outside cell network connections ? All while keeping a highly accurate track and even have a camera in it so you only need to take the 64. It can log heart rate, ambient temp and even bike speed all with a track log. The ease of using a software program at home on a nice big PC/Mac screen to plot out a path or route while also having the sat images and topos displayed ? Its external antenna connection is a great feature. Its got perfect readability in the most extreme Arizona sunlight. It handles extremes of temp.

I cant really think of anything for even a wish list to add. Its already got everything. A speaker for voice would be cool. I would like the ability to use GPS elevation rather then barometric elevation for input on things like elevation charts.

The 64 is a stunningly cool tool. Its mature so it works. No real bugs or issues.

But Base Camp needs a update. IMHO. We need a Basecamp 5. Its not that much money to do it. It needs it. It could use some new things as well as fixes. It would be cool to include things like input conversions. GIS and a range of 3rd party stuff could be imported easier and better if basecamp did it directly. Maybe Garmin could buy up one of the popular programs like Mapwel. I would like to be able to import a GIS file directly with Base Camp.