Waypoint Manager

Further to the OP...
I'm currently planning an extended motorcycle trip in the Alps. In addition to checking out the scenery, part of the fun is collecting mountain passes. It sounds a little "why bother"; if you ride and have even seen videos of some of the roads, 'nuff said. :) Anyway...

In some areas, almost any route will repeat some passes. OK the clever idea is to build a list of all the preferred passes in an area. Copy the pass list into a into a new route list, use them as needed, and maybe create a couple of new waypoints along the way. The new route list now has all of the passes copied from the pass list, and a couple of new waypoints. The unused passes can be deleted from the route list. But there's no way to know, short of reading the route description, which passes can be removed or not. And, of course, any new waypoints are now submerged in the long passes list.

I'm looking for a way to trim down the excess and generally get all of the routes' waypoint lists under control. Ideas?

I’m not sure what at advice to give. It is not clear to me how well you understand the BaseCamp interface. So it is probably best to start there. I apologize in advance in case you already understand this.

“My Collection” basically shows all the objects (routes, tracks, waypoints, custom maps etc.) in your database. Additional folders and lists are a means to organize and cross reference objects. It also provides of means of filtering objects in the Map Window. Only objects within a folder and its subfolders are visible on the Map. Only items on a List or visible on a map. When an object is added to a list, BaseCamp does not create a duplicate object, it only creates a means to find the object in the database. So a Waypoint with the same name in multiple lists always refers to a single Waypoint in your database. Make a change to that Waypoint while viewing any list changes the Waypoint in the database, and consequently the change appears in all lists.

Because lists contain a means to locate an object rather than the object itself, two means of “deleting” objects are necessary. One simply removes an object from a list. The other removes an object from the database and, therefore, all lists. Deleting an object from “My Collection” deletes it from the database.

Duplicate objects with the same name but with a number appended arise from transferring to and from devices. Garmin has worked on improving some degree of synchronization, but it will depend on your device and whether or not you wiped your device clean of all data at some point.

To begin with, I would probably start by cleaning up duplicate objects – the ones with appended numbers. If you have truly duplicate Routes, you may want to delete them first before moving onto Waypoints. If you open a waypoint and click on the reference tab it will tell you what lists have that Waypoint and what Routes use that Waypoint. It the duplicate Waypoint is not in any Route, just delete it. If it is in one or more routes you will need to replace the duplicate Waypoint with the original – make sure they are the same location. From My Collection, you could open a Route, highlight the duplicate Waypoint, click on the “+” symbol and select to original Waypoint to add. This should place either above or below the duplicate Waypoint in the Route and the duplicate can be removed. Once all routes using the duplicate Waypoint are fixed, delete the Waypoint from the database.

Once this is done, you should probably make an “Upload” list and copy the objects in BaseCamp that are on your device. DO NOT download the objects from your device. When this is done, delete all the objects from your device and verify the deletion on the device when it is not attached to the computer. Now you can send the “Upload” list to your device and hopefully this will minimize duplication of objects in the future. It may still occur when you create objects on your device and then download to BaseCamp. Just be aware that when a name with appended number appears that the name already exists in BaseCamp and you should check to see if it is the same or different. I always recommend downloading to an empty List as it makes it easier to spot and fix these issues.

Now you can start to think about how to organize your objects and whether to use a Waypoint or a Via/Shaping point in your Routes. As to your Alp issue, if the Waypoint List and Route list are within the same folder, highlighting the folder will reveal all these Waypoints and Routes. After the trip, delete the Routes that you did not ride. Now, any Waypoints that do not have a Route passing thru them can be deleted from the database if that is what you wish.

I’m not sure what at advice to give. It is not clear to me how well you understand the BaseCamp interface. So it is probably best to start there. I apologize in advance in case you already understand this.

“My Collection” basically shows all the objects (routes, tracks, waypoints, custom maps etc.) in your database. Additional folders and lists are a means to organize and cross reference objects. It also provides of means of filtering objects in the Map Window. Only objects within a folder and its subfolders are visible on the Map. Only items on a List or visible on a map. When an object is added to a list, BaseCamp does not create a duplicate object, it only creates a means to find the object in the database. So a Waypoint with the same name in multiple lists always refers to a single Waypoint in your database. Make a change to that Waypoint while viewing any list changes the Waypoint in the database, and consequently the change appears in all lists.

Because lists contain a means to locate an object rather than the object itself, two means of “deleting” objects are necessary. One simply removes an object from a list. The other removes an object from the database and, therefore, all lists. Deleting an object from “My Collection” deletes it from the database.

I have that under control.

Duplicate objects with the same name but with a number appended arise from transferring to and from devices. Garmin has worked on improving some degree of synchronization, but it will depend on your device and whether or not you wiped your device clean of all data at some point.

All of this is standard database technology. No problems there

To begin with, I would probably start by cleaning up duplicate objects – the ones with appended numbers. If you have truly duplicate Routes, you may want to delete them first before moving onto Waypoints. If you open a waypoint and click on the reference tab it will tell you what lists have that Waypoint and what Routes use that Waypoint. It the duplicate Waypoint is not in any Route, just delete it. If it is in one or more routes you will need to replace the duplicate Waypoint with the original – make sure they are the same location. From My Collection, you could open a Route, highlight the duplicate Waypoint, click on the “+” symbol and select to original Waypoint to add. This should place either above or below the duplicate Waypoint in the Route and the duplicate can be removed. Once all routes using the duplicate Waypoint are fixed, delete the Waypoint from the database.

This is where the wheels fall off. For various reasons, I've created more than one "Home" waypoint - with a different name, of course. It was created either because I needed a waypoint there in a hurry, or there was no quick way to know where to find a "Home" to copy to the new route. Short of a telepathic link with BC, I have no hint about where various waypoints are they're reused. I can guess, and I can click until I get lucky, but that's far too time-consuming. This is where a map of waypoints and using routes comes in.

All of the problems with initially reusing a waypoint are compounded when trying to replace a duplicate (name+number) with the correct "true" waypoint (i.e., waypoint with the right name). In a limited manner, I've been able to do this with a cluster of routes recently created. In some cases I just suck it up and accept a name+number. At some point I'll step away from the routes for a while. A few weeks later trying to remember what waypoints are where will not be fun.

Once this is done, you should probably make an “Upload” list and copy the objects in BaseCamp that are on your device. DO NOT download the objects from your device. When this is done, delete all the objects from your device and verify the deletion on the device when it is not attached to the computer. Now you can send the “Upload” list to your device and hopefully this will minimize duplication of objects in the future. It may still occur when you create objects on your device and then download to BaseCamp. Just be aware that when a name with appended number appears that the name already exists in BaseCamp and you should check to see if it is the same or different. I always recommend downloading to an empty List as it makes it easier to spot and fix these issues.

In my case, things are compounded by using two map sets, the North America set and the Europe set. I downloaded everything in the Zumo, weeded out obsolete waypoints, and waypoints from my regular trips to Germany. That group became the US load. Almost all of them serve as destinations, not waypoints or shaping points. I can store them, clear the Zumo, and upload the European waypoint set (same basic content, different locations). So far, so good. But...

Remember I'm working on routing for a motorcycle trip in the Alps. In this case there are many, unique waypoints along any route, as well as common waypoints (cities, mountain passes, etc.). My current game plan is to do route uploads every couple of days, clearing the Zumo, uploading the baseline European waypoints, and then the next day or two's routes and waypoints. It's drawing these routes that's prompted my OP. The list of total waypoints to date is 350-400. Remember these are almost always interim waypoints (doing the same task as shaping points). They were generated with a motorcycle-specific planning tool (kurviger.de - presented in German and English - I recommend it highly for people who're looking for the twisty curvy way to get somewhere in Europe - sorry, no US planning; I tried). Kurviger doesn't do shaping points, just embeds them in a GPX file. Names are derived from their location. Each GPX has about 20-50 waypoints (determined by route length). I'm working with 14 routes at the moment, with more to come. It's not unreasonable to end up with 800-1000 waypoints in the project.

I'm trying to gather major points (cities, etc.) into a single list, but it's almost certain something important will slip through. For example, I "lost" the waypoint for a pass called "Timmelsjoch", for example. I have two new (for the upcoming trip) routes that use it. But trying to define waypoint "Timmelsjoch" kept complaining about not being unique. The original, it turns out, was in a set of unrelated routes from a similar trip last summer. 'I spent far too much time trying to make sense of routes over six months old.

Now you can start to think about how to organize your objects and whether to use a Waypoint or a Via/Shaping point in your Routes. As to your Alp issue, if the Waypoint List and Route list are within the same folder, highlighting the folder will reveal all these Waypoints and Routes. After the trip, delete the Routes that you did not ride. Now, any Waypoints that do not have a Route passing thru them can be deleted from the database if that is what you wish.

I get that. But there's no way to isolate, for example, routes used in a trip from Maine, from routes to New Hampshire, even though the Maine routes were used this past September, but the NH routes were used about two years ago. I could remove and store them, I suppose, but it's easier to keep track of route folders in BC.

The point I'm trying to make is that clicking on folders and lists does "reveal" waypoints and routes, but after a while even the folder collection is no longer inconsequential. The best way I can think of to keep control is to have a tool showing "this waypoint is used in X, Y, and Z lists in A, B, C folders". Anything else IMHO is a workaround at best.

The References tab in the waypoint properties box shows a list of where that waypoint has been used.

You can't lose a waypoint as they are all listed in "My Collection".

Thanks. That gets me moving in one direction: "this waypoint is used where". Now, if there was a way to find an original waypoint after finding out the name is in use, but don't know where it's used.

Ctrl + Alf + F to bring up the search boxes, select user data. Enter the waypoint in the search box and do a search ... you'll get a list of them that exist in the folder/list you have selected. If you want to search all your data ensure My Collection is selected.

But there's no way to isolate, for example, routes used in a trip from Maine, from routes to New Hampshire, even though the Maine routes were used this past September, but the NH routes were used about two years ago.

Why not? I don't understand what you mean or, perhaps, what you are trying to do.

But more to the point, in your particular case I think it would be best if you created a new database just for these motorcycle routes rather than to create further issues in your default database. It may be possible to minimize duplicated Waypoints, but it will depend on what these files you are downloading look like. You say that the downloaded Waypoint names are derived from their location. Do identical locations (Lat/Lon) in different downloaded files (I assume these are GPX files) use the same name?

Ctrl + Alf + F to bring up the search boxes, select user data. Enter the waypoint in the search box and do a search ... you'll get a list of them that exist in the folder/list you have selected. If you want to search all your data ensure My Collection is selected.

OK, that gives me the name list. Unfortunately, all I got was the waypoint names, sorted on their distance from some point (right now, that's a "don't care"). I suppose the search for a given waypoint's position in the list or list of lists narrows the search area to find an instance to list its properties, which leads to the Reference table. Sure is a long way to go to get a beer at the bar across the street, though...

However, I think this horse is looking rather sickly if not dead. My hope, in the OP, was to find out someone got clear and created a way to play with the database contents or at least play with lists of the contents. Guess not, huh.

Why not? I don't understand what you mean or, perhaps, what you are trying to do.

But more to the point, in your particular case I think it would be best if you created a new database just for these motorcycle routes rather than to create further issues in your default database. It may be possible to minimize duplicated Waypoints, but it will depend on what these files you are downloading look like. You say that the Waypoint names are derived from their location. Do identical locations (Lat/Lon) in different downloaded files (I assume these are GPX files) use the same name?

I would like very much to separate a number of travel modes (US local rides, extended rides, ditto driving and ditto all for EU travel) but I'm not aware that I can create multiple My Collections (even assuming only one collection can be used at a time).

Not sure whether this will help as I find organising data into numerous folders and lists are sufficient for me, but you can create multiple databases also should you so wish, which would enable you to create multiple MyCollections ...