Firstbeat features

Perhaps worth noting you get a graph of performance condition over time in an activity. However this might be "summarised" by perhaps a single change in your VO2 Max.

Personally I like those summary stats like avg and max HR as provides a quick way of assessing a run/ride using "traditional" metrics. Training effect is clearly less familiar and it does appear that to get a high number a certain duration is required as even if you broke say the 5K world record you might not get a 5.0 for this!

I bought the 935 because I wanted a training watch, and this watch had advanced training metrics

Then you got what you wanted. It's an entirely different matter if you lack the skills and knowledge to interpret the output. These devices are not coaches. They provide the information for the user and/or the coach to interpret/use to achieve specific training outcomes. Simply seeking to improve VO2max or LHT is not in and of itself, much use. There comes a point when these metrics see little change. Then what? How do you improve performance? What can you do to be better? The pretty graphs Garmin produces are all well and good, but that's all they are - pretty pictures. It's how you use the information that's important.

This thread and all of Herman's input is great. The fact that there are so many questions from experienced users even on older Firstbeat features shows how little explanation of these stats there's been in the past.

Is there any way to cross-link this thread to the other sub-forums? I'm sure it'd be quite handy if possible to have a single source available to everyone who has a Garmin device that uses any sort of Firstbeat analytics and with Vo2Max being pushed farther down the range there's going to be a lot of users who've never had this info before and are sure to have questions.

To not exacerbate the issue further, but of course that number would make "sense," but i'd want to see which 8 I got right and the 2 I got wrong. Otherwise i'm just being told I got 8 right no? The person telling me my score could tell me anything! I want to SEE the test after the fact. That's what I want here with Firstbeat.





Both of these are cop-out responses and have been regurgitated over and over here on these forums and are not at all what I want or am asking for. If anything i'm advocating for LESS numbers thrown out willy-nilly and for MORE visual representation of those things. Why in the world would I want to look (or anyone else for that matter) at mathematical equations to gauge their workout? Maybe a few would, I guess, but overall? How did either of you (or any that bring this up) come to this conclusion? All I was asking for is alongside the TE numbers for a workout a physical chart showing where and how they got there like the one in the firstbeat document (on page 7).

By this argument you both are putting forth, it would be absurd to have ANY visual to ANY metric no? Your Heart Rate should then just be a number, there shouldn't be ANY chart showing the ebb and flow of your HR; nope the simplistic number being reported in the moment and after is enough no? How about Power? or Cadence? Would you believe anything they put there if you couldn't see where your chosen metric rose and fell? Why is this one thing such a defensive position?



I bought the 935 because I wanted a training watch, and this watch had advanced training metrics. What I got though seems to be a 1st generation metric that needs refinement and I don't like how it works. You seem fine to settle for it, and that's your thing. The point of these forums are discussion about information no? Garmin doesn't need you to defend them, you get whatever you want out of the watch, doesn't mean that is the only way it should be. That goes both ways, just i'm going to voice my opinion on what I want.

-removing myself from further discussion to avoid distraction from the Firstbeat Document.

It is worth noting that TE is available in real time as a native datafield (listed under the Heart Rate categories), if you were wanting to use this to drive your workouts.

The major driver of TE is in fact peak EPOC (Excess Post-Exercise Oxygen Consumption). Deriving this from HR data is a Fristbeat proprietary algorithm, but certainly Suunto (who also use the Firstbeat algorithms) do make the EPOC number available - both on their Movescount website (graphically), and in real time on the watch through an app (as a number), so the EPOC number itself isn't proprietary. The graphical presentation of EPOC does allow you to see the effect of longer versus harder intervals and the length of recovery between intervals has on the peak EPOC reached, and thus the TE. Of course, EPOC does need to be seen in the context of VO2Max - as your training cycle progresses and your VO2Max increases, the same peak EPOC will produce a smaller TE. TE is more useful in judging the effectiveness of your training than just the raw peak EPOC number.

But the introduction of TE v2 (ie. the separation of aerobic and anaerobic TE) has complicated things somewhat, and it is no longer just about the raw peak EPOC. I hit aerobic TE of 3.5-3.7 three times last week in very different ways - once through some longer sub-threshold intervals, once through some shorter intervals at or above threshold over short rolling hills and once on a 200 km ride. These different rides will have produced different peak EPOC numbers, but result in the same TE. To be fair, Garmin's qualitative explanations of TE were different for each of these rides.

I don't think there is any Connect IQ datafield showing EPOC (unless it has been added in the last couple of months?) but the aerobic v anaerobic TE is probably the more useful number. I'm not sure whether it is Garmin or Firstbeat choosing to no longer expose EPOC with TE v2. Perhaps Herman would like to comment on this?

I think the EPOC values are what are summed up over the last 7 days for your training load score. It would be good to see these scores on a per activity basis to gain better insight into what is effecting your training load. What I have discovered that going long but easy is not necessarily going to give you a massive score but will likely increase general fatigue. It is that kind of balance between how far to go against how hard that always interests me especially if your time is limited.

Tim,

While you are right that the SUM of EPOC values go into training load, TE is more about the PEAK EPOC reached. re your point about fatigue, what might be interesting is to have a real time field showing recovery time, so that you could end your workout once you have reached 24 hours recovery time.

Talking of Firstbeat features, my "Training Load" has gone completely through the roof lately with a value of "1849" for the last 7 days vs my usual 700/900, all this with similar training of course. I did notice it going rather low after the latest update so maybe this is some type of compensation ? Anyone else ?

webvan,

There was an issue around the time of the last update where (depending on your settings), some incorrect HR zones were being pulled across from Garmin Connect - some people were reporting their entire workout in Z5, which will likely give a huge Training Load. I'd check your Time in Zones from some recent activities to see if this is the case for you.

Thanks for the hint but I checked and the zones are ok as is everything else (TE, VO2Max, etc...) apart from the Training Load, weird...