What a Pile of Rubbish

Even though I've long since returned my TomTom Spark Cardio+Music, I'm still quite active on the TomTom discussion forums and maintain an interest in the product. To be fair, I'm not seeing TomTom being any better or more responsive with regard to fixing defects, let alone implement additional features requested by customers that weren't already promised in marketing collateral prior to product release, by way of firmware updates.

I also looked quite closely at then Suunto Ambit3 Run, after returning the TomTom and before settling on buying the Garmin Forerunner 235, but it looks to me its Android app is in perpetual beta and unable to get to a stable, fit-for-purpose release to date.

While I don't think it is unreasonable to want to buy (and gladly pay an above-market-average premium for) something that just works out-of-the-box as advertised, and get incremental performance tweaks and minor improvements in usability from time to time afterwards, I think it is unrealistic in today's commercial landscape. (As for getting additional features that increases the utility and hence value of the product functionally, forget about it.)

Oh, I had other choices, but on the balance of everything, Garmin still won my custom. That's what being competitive in the marketplace is all about, isn't it? The intended primary beneficiaries of market competition are the industry players vying for profitable revenue and market share, not consumers who hope to sit back and be well served while prices got lower and features got fancier. Aspirations, quality-of-life and satisfaction of the individual are not the concern of for-profit commercial enterprise.

I was lucky to have a good base experience with TomTom (multisport cardio, not the new spark release) which of course helps tremendously with the experience and my feelings towards the brand. I do remember getting frequent updates, also after a number of months (less frequent, but still there). But yeah, no idea how other solutions compare to Garmin. On the other hand, that shouldn't really matter either imo, the 'but they don't do it either' argument. Also, I was warned when going for Garmin to 'not expect to work as advertised right away...' which says enough as well.

And I really don't expect anything else then what was advertised, I firmly believe in 'buy based on the current functionality, not on rumors, expectations and promises'. Although the latter should be something you could count on. But again, I do expect them to at least try and meet the advertised functionality and at least put in some effort for their paying costumers. Also because a happy customer is a returning customer.

Perhaps that's a bit too much nowadays and perhaps your expectations are indeed more realistic, but that would be a sad thing as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, that shouldn't really matter either imo, the 'but they don't do it either' argument.

Oh, I agree. I'm not offering Garmin an excuse or an easy way out of its obligations to deliver on functionality that is promised in its products' marketing collateral. I was merely pointing out that practical options for even semi-serious runners and/or cyclists in this supposedly highly contended market segment are fewer than some the-customer-is-always-right folk seems to think. As consumers, we can only choose from what is offered, and not necessarily what we actually want (because we're in no position to create or deliver those things for ourselves).

But again, I do expect them to at least try and meet the advertised functionality and at least put in some effort for their paying costumers.

As do I, and if/when they fail, I cite the provisions of the Australian Consumer Law and get a full refund for products that are not as described by the manufacturer/retailer or not fit for purpose.

However, there are grey areas – for example, the ‘smart’ HR sampling rate for the purposes of 24x7 tracking, and in particular whether customers' or users' preferences ought to be ‘respected’ and whether they are given a choice in the sampling rate. It doesn't matter how loud certain individuals scream and shout; having granular control is not an entitlement, and fitness for purpose (at least where the Australian Consumer Law is concerned) is primarily determined by descriptions given in marketing collateral, instead of what the individual customer have (or had) in mind, or even experienced at some point.

Also because a happy customer is a returning customer.

There is some truth in that, but suppliers in the market also want customer to ‘return’ when the next generation of product is released, and not only when the customer is good and ready (to part with more money). Even Apple is lamenting how iPad users are holding onto superseded models for too long without upgrading. Making things work well enough can be counter-productive commercially.

Perhaps that's a bit too much nowadays and perhaps your expectations are indeed more realistic, but that would be a sad thing as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe I'm overly cynical. However, I certainly don't expect others – be it managers of business enterprises, or fellow customers/users of some product I happen to have – to have my best interests in mind when making decisions.

Changing sensors is more likely a money/control thing then a functionality thing I think, but one can only guess about that. Another point is that there just aren't that many alternatives... Garmin and TomTom are the only ones delivering the product I seek so I'm pretty much stuck to those.

I am sitll planning on buying a TomTom for the right price as well, even though I like the Garmin product more (design and functionality wise). Also, I do believe I read about more complaints with the new TomTom watches compared to their old products as well, after changing sensors.

Perhaps I was spoiled with TomTom and just got lucky that it worked so good for me. But that did cause me to have expectations, unfortunately not delivered. But true, I'm looking at it from the consumer level and not the manufacturer. You do have a point about going for the cheaper, but good enough for their standards, solution.

The 72bpm issue was just an example btw, an issue which Garmin addressed as a bug themselves and has been fixed in other products while we are still waiting. An example of why it feels we are already being moved to the 2nd row... My resting HR is in the low 50s, so when checking the HR and it moves up to 72 only to move down afterwards it seems to waste a lot of time so in that sense it annoys me. But as long as it doesn't mess up your averages it's not as big of an issue.

And I don't expect them to add functionality, you buy based on what it is now, but I DO expect them to deliver on said functionality and for as long as that doesn't work as expected or promised they should fix that.

Perhaps if my experiences with the previous OHR weren't as good I would look at this product completely different. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I have experienced how it CAN behave so it disappoints me when a newer release/version is a step backward.

Ah well, no demands can be made and in the end we have no option then to hope the best from Garmin. Unfortunately this does form my opinion on the manufacturer and if people would ask me my opinion on it it would not be too good.

But hopefully an update will come and we can continue to use your watches with the highest level of joy possible for each of us individually ;)

I had the TomTom Spark Cardio Music and changed to FR 235 and haven´t regretted the decision. GPS was slow to lock in TomTom Spark, step accuracy a joke, MP3 was one of the best features, but sometimes didn't work properly and even turn my watch off in the middle of a run. Maybe they changed the software since and no it works better, but check before going for them.

I had the TomTom Spark Cardio Music and changed to FR 235 and haven´t regretted the decision. GPS was slow to lock in TomTom Spark, step accuracy a joke, MP3 was one of the best features, but sometimes didn't work properly and even turn my watch off in the middle of a run. Maybe they changed the software since and no it works better, but check before going for them.

yeah, understood there are issues with their spark line as well. Too bad because I own a TomTom MultiSport Cardio as well and the OHR on that one performed perfect for me 9 out of 10 times (also when changing paces, doing interval training, etc). Never experienced cadencle locks with that one either, perhaps their solution of covering the sensor (it has a rubber band around the shielding the sensor wrist from outside light).

Still, if I can get the spark for a nice price I surely will give it a try.