Current pace instead of step pace during workout

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

jenjenjenthejen — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 03:01:22 GMT

I have the same question for my forerunner

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

shandymanslife — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 01:55:42 GMT

yeah my beef was that the change appeared to be undocumented, when changing from 6X to Epix. the 6x had behaved a certain way during workouts for many years, and the Epix appears to have changed that, without release notes indicating so. I'd documented a comparison here: https://forums.garmin.com/beta-program/fenix-7-series/public-beta-reports/i/public-beta-9-xx/structured-workout-step-pace-alerts-trigger-on-current-pace-instead-of-step-pace

In my Fenix 6X and earlier (5S and so on) models, structured workouts used lap pace for the pace alerts, and the pace displayed on the gauge was the lap pace. It looks like when changing to Epix, the workouts moved to "step pace" which is a new data element, but the alerting was not completely migrated to use this new data element. When a step pace alert triggers, based on a 5-10s avg of instant pace, it displays the lap pace to the user - which is often inside the correct pace target zone.

I fundamentally disagree that step pace should be any derivtive of instant pace, because the name "step pace" indicates an average over that "step" in the workout. This is what I'd come to be familiar with in the earlier Fenix range.

Alas, with no other user support and zero recognition from Garmin, I let me wallet do the talking.

Best of luck to you.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

melink14 — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 01:34:53 GMT

Yeah, I can understand for fast intervals on a track this might make sense but when running in the real world (with hills, stop lights, dogs) it's hard to keep one instant pace. Glad you found a watch that works for you!

I did notice that in the epix manual the `step pace` data field says current pace while the `lap pace` data field is described as "The average pace for the current lap." Since workout data fields didn't exist in the Fenix 6, it's possible that this change happened as part of some unification of data and it's intentional.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

shandymanslife — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 01:24:03 GMT

melink14 thanks for confirming that I'm not crazy. the amount of people that said "thats how i want my workout alerts to work" was driving me nuts. Ultimately I sold my Epix and have been using the Apple Watch Ultra, with WorkOutdoors app, and it's been perfect. it does everything I want. No regrets.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

melink14 — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 01:19:39 GMT

I upgraded from Fenix 6X to Epix Pro last week and noticed this bug as well. I thought I was going crazy since the alerts themselves showed step pace even though the alerts triggered based on instaneous pace.

It looks like it's still a problem a year later with no feedback from Garmin in the forums. I'm currently on 13.22 which happened to break workouts in other ways so maybe it's a new problem given no posts here for 11 months.

Since my step/interval pace goal is based on average it doesn't really help me to know that I slowed down going up a hill or sped up going down a hill.

For now, I will memorize and manually track step pace and perhaps instant pace alerts will be useful for very short intervals and getting a quicker heads up if my pace is not in zone.

I'll also reach out to support to at least get confirmation for if this is intendened or not.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

shandymanslife — Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:59:16 GMT

I have (now) . It is also a bug in 8.37, but since it is not fixed in 9.xx I have raised the issue here forums.garmin.com/.../structured-workout-step-pace-alerts-trigger-on-current-pace-instead-of-step-pace

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

Etupes25 — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 17:09:38 GMT

Did you file a bug in the beta forum?

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

shandymanslife — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:56:12 GMT

This isn’t fixed in beta 9.22

with my Fenix 5x and 6x and 6S pro, when executing a structured run with pace zones, the workout screen will alert only on STEP PACE.

currently on the Epix, the pace alerts are on CURRENT PACE - however the defective behaviour is that when the alert is triggered the display shows STEP PACE.

as an example today I ran with a target pace of 4:05-4:15/km for 5km step. At 2.3km my STEP PACE average was 4:07/km - INSIDE THE ZONE.
i turned and ran up a short hill and in that time my current pace dropped a little. The “too slow” alert triggered within a few seconds of slowing down however my STEP PACE average was still 4:10/km and this is what displayed on my watchface with the blue coloured “too slow” screen.

regardless of people’s opinion of liking current pace over step pace, it is defective behaviour. You can’t tell me I am too slow and then show me a screen with a value that is IN THE ZONE. That’s dumb.

in my 6x this works as I expect it to, and I have run with them at the same time and my Epix alerts when it shouldn’t but the 6x does not.

how do we get someone at Garmin to look at this?

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

phoglund_ — Fri, 06 May 2022 08:02:43 GMT

[quote userid="46732" url="~/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/epix-2/282955/current-pace-instead-of-step-pace-during-workout/1416151#1416151"]the nag screens which warn you are outside your chosen pace are based on your lap/step pace not the instant pace being shown on the workout screen[/quote]

This is changed in latest beta if I understand it correctly. I've not tested yet myself. Maybe only audio...

Fixed issue where pace and heart rate audio prompts were only giving averages

Edit: maybe not related to configured workouts at all...

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

krisdavi — Fri, 06 May 2022 07:37:55 GMT

I agree. The term step pace can only mean one thing, the average pace for the step. It does not display that however, it displays current pace. Current pace may be useful for some people, but it is not the same thing as step pace. And the alert misalignment with the displayed value is a red flag.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

davidhurst — Fri, 06 May 2022 07:25:21 GMT

There may be a confusion over terms. I think lap pace and [average] step pace are generally being used interchangeably (a step and a lap are essentially the same I suppose). What seems to me to appear in the workout field for pace is instant pace, which zags about too much to be useful. The displayed pace is definitely not the average for the whole workout which would, as you say, not be at all useful.

That the display of instant pace is an error is strongly suggested by the fact that the nag screens which warn you are outside your chosen pace are based on your lap/step pace not the instant pace being shown on the workout screen. The prompts and the screen are therefore showing different things, which makes no sense. I only hope what I have just written does!

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

Etupes25 — Fri, 06 May 2022 01:01:04 GMT

It is a good idea to have some options for pace, like we have for cycling power: instant, 3sec average, 10sec average, lap/step average, overall average. That would be OK for data fields. But for targets in workouts, this might be a different story.

I am guessing that would require a lot of changes to have many options for structured workout targets, since it would impact how other platforms integrate with Garmin.

Personally, I would prefer Garmin to work on native power for running ;-)

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

Dr Phil — Thu, 05 May 2022 23:50:57 GMT

I've done a few paced based workouts recently and I see the pace for the step, not the average pace for the workout. So not sure what others are seeing. Pretty confident that I am correct in this as my pace during a work interval is over a minute/km faster than my pace during the recovery interval and this is reflected in the information on the watch.

[quote userid="205444" url="~/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/epix-2/282955/current-pace-instead-of-step-pace-during-workout/1415799#1415799"]would like it fixed to be an avg step pace,[/quote]

No. I would not want to see the average step pace either. Happy to have the paced averaged over say 5s for smoothing but if I'm doing a 1km interval at 5 min/km then I want to know how close I am during the interval. As it stands I get alerts when I'm too fast or too slow for the interval pace.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

davidhurst — Thu, 05 May 2022 19:53:59 GMT

My sense is that even with the superior GPS tracking of the Epix, current pace just jumps around too much to be of any practical value. The solution of course would be to allow users to choose which type of pace (average or instant) is displayed on the workout screen.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

Etupes25 — Thu, 05 May 2022 16:28:35 GMT

Gee! I hope this is not a bug.

I really want to see my current pace, instead of an average. This is essential for HIIT. When I accelerate from a recovery jog to a short distance target pace, I want to know I am on target, so my physical perception of pace improves. With an average, I wouldn't know how fast I am running, I would over compensate either way to adjust while, every 30 seconds, an alert might tell me I am too slow or too fast because the average is lagging.

When I think about it, pace is really a proxy for effort. If I run with power, I have even a better indicator of effort, and it is a better way to achieve a goal "the best I can".

I am still interested in the average run/lap/step pace, but it is after the run, or during longer splits. At that point, the average pace is more a proxy of stamina to me. With the Epix2, I now use current stamina for this aspect during the run.

Note: I also hope native power is coming to the Garmin platform, so I can structure workouts with power instead of pace without having to pay a TrainingPeaks or Stryd subscription for that purpose.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

krisdavi — Thu, 05 May 2022 12:42:55 GMT

I have also noticed this and would like it fixed to be an avg step pace, step pace can’t mean anything else than the avg for that step. This is on the Fenix 7 also.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

GlennLaenen — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 05:51:21 GMT

I don't believe is't by design, if I remember correctly, the Fenix 6 had the same issue in the early firmware versions.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

davidhurst — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 22:38:12 GMT

It would be good if they could at least confirm whether it is that way by design or not. Some people do seem to prefer the way it currently works - though I don’t - but either way it doesn’t seem to be an issue for many posting here so perhaps it isn’t a live issue for Garmin either. I’ve made a custom screen for workouts which has most of the functionality I want apart from the countdown (in time or distance) to the next workout leg - a minor irritation now I am used to it.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

thejp83 — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 19:05:12 GMT

They told me they’re looking into it but no news yet - and yes, all my workouts are still all messed up with instant pace instead of average pace for each workout step 😔

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

davidhurst — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:44:15 GMT

Did you get any response from Garmin on the workout pace question? It is still an issue in the latest firmware I think.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

pholczer72 — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:25:22 GMT

Me is also waiting for fixing the step pace! No need of the jumping and rounded current pace, but the average pace the current step/lap during a workout! I really hope this will be fixed soon (should be a quick win, really easy to fix).

p.s. now I realized, this is an epix forum topic, but the exactly the same with the 7X, this should be fixed for both

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

thejp83 — Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:36:39 GMT

Agree, David. The Garmin Support Team is looking into it and will get back to me, but when I asked Final Surge and they put me in contact with the Garmin API team they also think it’s a glitch in the firmware and put me in contact with the Garmin Support Team. Fingers crossed we got this fixed soon - I’m not against current pace being an option if customizable, seems some people are really into that, but with the pace jumping around and all the alerts I can’t envision on that would be helpful.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

davidhurst — Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:25:07 GMT

There is some speculation that the change from average step pace to current pace on the workout screen is deliberate. What you have found in the manual suggests it isn't. There's more evidence along those lines from the nag screen that comes up if you fall below the pace you have set for a step: it clearly shows your current average step pace, not your current pace, so the workout screen and its prompts are inconsistent with each other. It looks very much to me as if this is simply a mistake in the software.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

thejp83 — Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:54:50 GMT

Just checked the epix (Gen2) owner's manual and it literally says regarding workouts: "You can create custom workouts that include goals for each workout step and for varied distances, times, and calories. During your activity, you can view workout-specific data screens that contain workout step information, such as the workout step distance or average step pace."

Based on this there should have not been any change and it should still be showing average step pace and not current pace.

RE: Current pace instead of step pace during workout

thejp83 — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:01:10 GMT

I e-mailed Garmin about this, but haven't heard back from them yet. Agree with everyone else, current pace keeps jumping all over the pace and the pace alerts are, because of that, super frequent and annoying. I need that average pace back - it should at least be an option *sigh*