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What was the reason for not including maps on Enduro?

silentvoyager
over 3 years ago

I am exactly the kind of user who Garmin is targeting with Enduro. Initially I was very intrigued by Enduro, yet I think Garmin has made a mistake by not including maps. Training for ultrarunning involves very long runs in remote areas on trails where navigation is an essential part of experience.

Without maps, by relying only on turn-by-turn directions, navigation is much less reliable. Turn-by-turn directions simply don't work on trails because there are often trail junctions at odd angles that aren't detected as turns. At the same time the watch produces a lot of useless turn notifications at every sharp bend of trail where there are no actual turns. Maps are pretty much required to see the course relative to other terrain features - other trails, creeks, lakes, summits, etc.

So I wonder what was the rationale for excluding maps?

  • over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager
    silentvoyager said:
    But this watch was specifically targeted to trail ultra-runners.

    but why should it be assumed that all ultra-runners want maps on a watch? That is not necessarily the case. 

    In the past I have done ultra-marathons up to 100kms and never used maps on the watch. I have gone into the back of beyond for long training days {often for two or three nights without maps on a watch) but then I've always taken a map and compass to support the breadcrumb trails on the watch, I would never go out into the wilds relying solely on maps on a watch. To me that would be height of foolishness.

    Maps are not needed on a watch but they are useful to have as a supplement to map and compass.

  • over 2 years ago in reply to philipshambrook

    Sure, in the past I've done plenty of ultra runs and races without having maps on the watch too. I used real paper maps and offline maps on my phone. I still have, at a minimum, offline maps on my phone, to supplement F6X maps. However with maps on device, it is very rare for me to have to pull the phone to help with the navigation.

    Long before having maps on F6X, I extensively used a homegrown turn-by-turn navigation on Suunto Ambit series where I'd add a bunch of waypoints which names were used as navigation hints. That actually worked pretty well. My point is that Garmin could have at least fixed turn-by-turn navigation for Enduro if they decided to not include maps. The existing experience is pretty broken when running on trails. 

  • over 2 years ago

    One fine day, I received a text from a Garmin store owner that read, "Guess what, Garmin is releasing a new watch just for you." He knew that I was looking for a new watch to replace the Fenix 3HR and I told him numerous times that I wasn't interested to pay for features in the Fenix 6 that I know I'll never use ie Maps, Music, Wi-Fi. I've raced many trail ultras with the F3HR (HR disabled) attached to a power bank tucked inside my arm sleeve.  

    At 100% charge, the Enduro shows  battery life in normal use and in full GPS during activity (Every Second recording, GPS+GLONASS and Heart Rate). I last charged the watch on Aug 2, it's Aug 21 and watch today shows 50% charge remaining indicating for normal use and  in Trail Run activity screen after it has recorded 13 Run and Ride activities totalling 187km over 21 hours.

    Pulse Oximeter, Bluetooth, Notifications, Widgets (ABC, Heart Rate, Body Battery, etc), Activity Tracking are either disabled or removed. 

    Garmin really did make a watch for me!

  • over 2 years ago in reply to jan.shim

    99% fully agre wth you... All is fantastic and beautiful but missing the maps!

  • over 2 years ago in reply to jan.shim

    Look at Coros Vertix 2. It has maps and still has insane battery life - longer than Enduro.One doesn't exclude another. If Enduro had maps perhaps it would be a watch not only for you but for many more trail ultra-runners. I, for instance, use maps pretty much every weekend. And I don't even need routable maps, so Coros implementation would be sufficient. 

  • over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager
    silentvoyager said:
    Look at Coros Vertix 2. It has maps and still has insane battery life

    BUT no ANT+

  • over 2 years ago in reply to bluefish

    I have a simpler reason for staying with Garmin. Besides 5 years of Garmin workout data that I'm not willing to relinquish, temperature is one metric I cannot forgo. I live and race in the tropics where daily temps reach 40­°C/104 (occasionally several degrees higher) and heat acclimation training is critical for long hours in the sun when you're running an ultra. I read that Coros watches have thermometers in them but are used solely for operational reasons, why the same thermometer cannot be used to produce temperature metric I don't understand. 

  • over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager

    100% fully agree with you...

    NO MAPS NO GOOD TRAILS...

  • over 2 years ago in reply to jan.shim

    Do you think that temperature readings for heat heat acclimation come from the watch thermometer? I really doubt that when I read the support article.

    https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=PQCtbgWxJ65nRatXoHCmy7

    It would be unreliable to get the temperature from the watch because it is influenced by the body heat.

    Actually the article specifically mentions that:

    "Temperature readings for this are based on the weather data from your connected smartphone rather than sensors in your Garmin device."

  • over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager

    I do believe the Heat and Altitude Performance Acclimation feature is as Garmin says, using weather data from connected smartphone. It's not what I use for heat acclimation training. I don't disagree with you regarding temperature readings being influenced by body heat—more so when you're in cooler climates. Here in Brunei (500km away from the equator) and each time spend long hours on the trails in direct sunlight, peak temps climb above normal body temperature to the point the body temperature's impact no longer matters. The temperature widget on the other hand uses the watch's internal temperature sensor and is accurate enough for me to use as a training metric.