Some early thoughts (review) on my MK1

• With Garmin on conservative settings, it warned of nearing NDL shortly before the Suunto (very close, maybe 10 seconds).

It would depend on the conservatism settings on both computers but as it is an estimate being that close is very interesting.

• Garmin measured colder temps then Suunto (27C vs 26C). Between 1C and .5C difference depending on dive. May be due to where temperature is measured on watch (i.e. closer to body)

How close were the temperatures at the end of the dive? Some devices take a long time to "recover" from the air temperature.

• Max depth is different. Suunto says 8.2 m and Garmin MK1 says 8m (rounding off which appears to be a stupid think for something like diving). I suspect the real depth is there, but Connect truncates/rounds.

200cm is not a lot and may depend on the positioning of each computer when you hit your maximum depth.

• One concern that nags me a bit with the MK1 is that the SW for diving is mission critical. It cannot fail. Yet, the watch is a platform which allows 3[SUP]rd
[/SUP] party apps with unknown quality control to share the platform. For my peace of mind, I intend to minimise the use of 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party apps when I dive (uninstall). I work in the area of safety critical sw and am concerned that a poorly written 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party apps could take down the watch.

The documentation says that all 3rd party apps, widgets, etc. are disabled during dive mode.

• I entered all my past dives pre-Garmin into the connect platform. The watch did not continue numbering from these entered dives, and instead, it started over calling my new dives dive #1 (so I had two dive #1's). At the moment, it appears that I will need to renumber all dives after each dive trip. There should be a way to have the Garmin platform remember the last dive number. Seems like their web platform needs to coordinate with what’s on the watch better.

That is annoying...

• Appears that NO dive data moves from Connect back to the watch. Not sure. I wanted the historical dives I entered online to be in the watch. The point is to have all my dives in one place (Scuba divers talk while on the boat, and it is nice to be able to reference the old info ON the watch). Not a super big deal, but I like consolidating.

I'm not aware of any dive computer that would let you load data from another dive computer down to it. Additionally, most dive computers have limited memory and would never be able to store ALL your dives even if you did them all with the one computer. The dive computer is not the place to store ALL your dives.

• Would love if there was a way of loading dive profiles (depth profile etc) from OTHER dive watches into the connect platform (rather than just the high level parameters). I was looking around as to whether .FIT file could be loaded in, but have not seen what I need, plus I would need to figure out how to create a .FIT file from my old logs. Ultimately, I would love to have my Suunto profiles on the MK1 or at least on the Connect platform.

I'm not aware of any manufacturer's software that allows you to upload data from another manufacturer's dive computer. That's why there are 3rd party logging apps, such as DiveMate, Subsurface, Mac Dive Log, etc. You need to look into one of those rather than expect Garmin to support other dive computers.

• Need a way to directly link dives to phone without internet! This is critical and has been talked about on this forum already. Having just been on a dive trip with no internet or cell signal, I could not view my dive on my phone... well, to be totally honest, there was a very very slow occasionally working WIFI signal that took about 40 minutes to load my dive up to the cloud, and then back down again to my phone.... and changing screens, say for a heart rate plot, or previous dive, seemed to require it to go back up to the cloud again. As if all of the data was really only the cloud and little or nothing is actually on the phone. I would have not noticed this were it not for the very slow connection. If this is a case, this is a significant black mark. Sorry Suunto, these are my dives. I don't mind you peeking in, but I don't want to rely on you being in business to see my activities.

Agreed!

• Unit selection is too coarse. Connect seems to only allow units in metric OR imperial globably (i for all sports). For diving.... I think of distance above the water in KM, below the water in feet, depth in feet, pressure in PSI, elevation in feet, etc.
  Merely selecting metric or imperial annoys me every time I see a dive in meters and have to convert it in my mind.

I don't understand why anyone would mix metric and non-metric. (Personally, I don't understand why everybody doesn't use metric for everything, it is sooooo much easier).

It would depend on the conservatism settings on both computers but as it is an estimate being that close is very interesting.

With Garmin being new to the market, my primary curiosity was to see how similar the algorithms were.

How close were the temperatures at the end of the dive? Some devices take a long time to "recover" from the air temperature.

It was more or less a constant offset throughout. Calibration of the sensor? Perhaps the physical location of the temperature sensor was closer to the body?

200cm is not a lot and may depend on the positioning of each computer when you hit your maximum depth.

Even less actually. 20 cm. I would expect that the MK1 measures at a similar accuracy as the Suunto. The web page does not show any decimal points so it is rounding/truncating. But you may be right, left wrist vs right wrist could have easily been different.

The documentation says that all 3rd party apps, widgets, etc. are disabled during dive mode.

True. However, every OS has it's glitches. A very poorly written and misbehaving app could potentially corrupt memory, refuse to shutdown, etc. I have no idea of the OS that they are using on the watch and how well partitioned applications are.

I'm not aware of any dive computer that would let you load data from another dive computer down to it. Additionally, most dive computers have limited memory and would never be able to store ALL your dives even if you did them all with the one computer. The dive computer is not the place to store ALL your dives.

I think I read the MK1 has 16 Gig, probably shared with apps, graphics, maps, etc. That's a large amount of memory for a dive watch, and the tabular data which is gathered during a dive would be fairly small in comparison (i.e. assume 6 parameters, 3 times a second for a 60 minute dive, assuming 16 bit accuracy, would use around 12 meg). Even taking off space for apps, that would still be close to a 1000 dives. But I understand it's unlikely that any manufacturer would be keen on downloading foreign data to it's device. Still, a guy can dream...

I'm not aware of any manufacturer's software that allows you to upload data from another manufacturer's dive computer. That's why there are 3rd party logging apps, such as DiveMate, Subsurface, Mac Dive Log, etc. You need to look into one of those rather than expect Garmin to support other dive computers.

I agree that it is unlikely that Garmin will do the work for you and allow a direct import. However, with some hacking or using a standardized file type, it might be possible. Garmin's Connect platform is very much like those 3rd party platforms and I *think* there are already import functions for other sports on their web site (i.e. GPX or FIT for running/cycling). And there is some mobility of sports data between apps like Connect, Stavia and Runtastic. As it can be a revenue source for having the largest database of sports metrics, it could happen.

I don't understand why anyone would mix metric and non-metric. (Personally, I don't understand why everybody doesn't use metric for everything, it is sooooo much easier).

For what-ever reason, I learned diving in imperial. I think in PSI and feet when I dive. DiveMate and Suunto's app all allow one to select the units of choice. That said, I agree, Metric Rulz!

With Garmin being new to the market, my primary curiosity was to see how similar the algorithms were.

Garmin is using Bühlmann ZHL-16c with gradient factors and so should be consistent with other dive computers using the same. Suunto uses RGBM and I would have expected it not to be the same. That's what I thought it was interesting that you saw them match closely. Perhaps with a different dive profile they'd differ by a lot more.

I dived with my descent yesterday and it was very close to my Shearwater Perdix AI but both use Bühlmann ZHL-16c and I had the same conservatism set so that was to be expected.

It was more or less a constant offset throughout. Calibration of the sensor? Perhaps the physical location of the temperature sensor was closer to the body?

Sensors vary wildly between brands. For example, I would never trust the sensor in an Oceanic dive computer. The are so far out.

See the picture attached showing the readings from my Citizen Hyper Aqualand, Oceanic Atom 3.0 and Shearwater Perdix AI from the same dive.

Even less actually. 20 cm. I would expect that the MK1 measures at a similar accuracy as the Suunto. The web page does not show any decimal points so it is rounding/truncating. But you may be right, left wrist vs right wrist could have easily been different.

D'oh! Yeah, 20cm.

True. However, every OS has it's glitches. A very poorly written and misbehaving app could potentially corrupt memory, refuse to shutdown, etc. I have no idea of the OS that they are using on the watch and how well partitioned applications are.

Garmin have been building mission critical aviation devices so I think they know how to partition off an area. I'm happy running apps/watch faces/etc. on mine.

I think I read the MK1 has 16 Gig, probably shared with apps, graphics, maps, etc. That's a large amount of memory for a dive watch, and the tabular data which is gathered during a dive would be fairly small in comparison (i.e. assume 6 parameters, 3 times a second for a 60 minute dive, assuming 16 bit accuracy, would use around 12 meg). Even taking off space for apps, that would still be close to a 1000 dives. But I understand it's unlikely that any manufacturer would be keen on downloading foreign data to it's device. Still, a guy can dream...

If you look at the size of the FIT file from a dive (which is how the dive data is stored on the watch), it is a lot smaller than 12MB. The FIT file from my 54 minute dive yesterday is only 104KB. So you can probably fit more than 1,000 dives. That said, can you imagine how fiddly it would be scrolling through even 100 dives on the watch, let alone 1,000? Put it on your phone and use that.

I agree that it is unlikely that Garmin will do the work for you and allow a direct import. However, with some hacking or using a standardized file type, it might be possible. Garmin's Connect platform is very much like those 3rd party platforms and I *think* there are already import functions for other sports on their web site (i.e. GPX or FIT for running/cycling). And there is some mobility of sports data between apps like Connect, Stavia and Runtastic. As it can be a revenue source for having the largest database of sports metrics, it could happen.

But why? There are already a bunch of third party apps that can do all this and more.

For what-ever reason, I learned diving in imperial. I think in PSI and feet when I dive. DiveMate and Suunto's app all allow one to select the units of choice. That said, I agree, Metric Rulz!

My Descent MK1 lets me choose feet for depth and kilometres for distance - not that I want that. In fact, that's how mine came. I had to manually change it to metres for depth.ciq.forums.garmin.com/.../1323976.jpg

Garmin have been building mission critical aviation devices so I think they know how to partition off an area. I'm happy running apps/watch faces/etc. on mine.

Perhaps my concerns were over stated. It's in the back of my mind, but I generally trust Garmin from the quality of their products. Even the (slight sarcasm) mighty Apple can let bugs through. For now, the number of person-hours of collective experience with the watch is still low. But with time, confidence will be built.

And my initial experiences with the watch under water and above have shown a solid device with zero issues (for anyone reading this needing assurances)

If you look at the size of the FIT file from a dive (which is how the dive data is stored on the watch), it is a lot smaller than 12MB. The FIT file from my 54 minute dive yesterday is only 104KB. So you can probably fit more than 1,000 dives. That said, can you imagine how fiddly it would be scrolling through even 100 dives on the watch, let alone 1,000? Put it on your phone and use that.

I made a mistake in my estimate calculation. For the conditions I assumed, my back-of-the-envelope calculation should have shown a 1 hour dive should be around 129k. This is in line with what your FIT file showed.

Thinking about it more.... you are probably right, a phone and good app is the better way for viewing or remembering a dive. I have this thing where I like to consolidate and simplify onto one platform. But as dive computers will come and go, it is probably a better idea of standardise on a PC/Phone app.

But why? There are already a bunch of third party apps that can do all this and more.

In my aforementioned quest for perfect consolidation, I use Garmin's Connect platform for my other above water activities as well. I would like Garmin to raise their web interface to a level which is as good as the 3rd party apps. As I said earlier, it's pretty damn good as is, and there is nothing saying it cannot be used in parallel with a 3rd party app, but as a wish, it would be nice to have one stop shopping for all activities.

My Descent MK1 lets me choose feet for depth and kilometres for distance - not that I want that. In fact, that's how mine came. I had to manually change it to metres for depth.

Correct, the watch does, but the phone app (and probably the web site) has a global setting (User settings - -> Unit of measure) for units (Metric, Statute, Statute UK)


A couple of other observations:

Screen brightness: I wish the LCD/LED screen tech they used was a little better. Those amazing studio pics on the web site showing perfect contrast on the display only happen on a perfectly bright sunny day with light coming in at the right angle. The display is readable and the back light settings can be adjusted to make the screen more legible in low light scenarios (it comes with settings fairly low). But still..... I wish it looked it had the intensity and contrast shown in the pics all the time.

Night dive: I did a night dive with the watch and had set the back-light to "at depth" which I thought meant, the light would stay on "while at depth". Instead, it lit after activation (screen touch or button) would stay on for the time out period, and shut off. I assume I should have set it to "Always on".

Touch screen: I'm not sure if it is my watch specifically, but I find the touch screen to be inconsistent. I was finding it needed a pretty hard tap to get it to progress screens. It was also inconsistent, maybe registering a tap half of the time. I may raise this with Garmin to see if my watch specifically is defective, but would be interested in others experience.


But overall, I love the watch. For me, it works as a do everything watch, and that is it's appeal. The supporting connect platform/app allows me to check when I last skied, cycled, paddle-boarded, or dove, along with where, when and for how long. And as a newly launched product, Garmin did a great job getting it to a perfectly usable state. But I would like to see Garmin keep making the improvements to the overall experience.

Correct, the watch does, but the phone app (and probably the web site) has a global setting (User settings - -> Unit of measure) for units (Metric, Statute, Statute UK)

I may be wrong, but I think the ONLY way you can set the units it uses for depth is on the watch.

When I got mine depth was set to feet even though the settings on my iPhone said Metric. I had to change that particular setting on the watch.

I may be wrong, but I think the ONLY way you can set the units it uses for depth is on the watch.

When I got mine depth was set to feet even though the settings on my iPhone said Metric. I had to change that particular setting on the watch.

I looks like each platform has it's own place to select the units you want:

The watch: SETTINGS - -> SYSTEM- ->UNITS
The phone app: USER SETTINGS - -> UNIT OF MEASURE
The Connect web page: * Actually, I could not find a place to change it. It's metric for me.*

Hello internet,

I'm doing a small research project on free-diver profiles in a local area and have a couple of MK1 watches to gather basic free-dive data. I know - overkill, but the ability to use with separate HR bands and the (supposed) capacity to export the raw data lured me in. I chose them because my preliminary understanding was that I would be able to get the raw data off the Garmin watch/connect website via CSV or otherwise. Apparently not.


How can I get the HR data of the MK1 or Garmin Connect export the raw data? Please don't send me to the link where it explains how to export the raw .fit file or a CSV of the splits etc. They don't export the raw HR, Dive/time data - which is what I'm after.

I would think there are many threads on this - please can someone point me to them? Also posting here because Garmin Forums won't let me post a new thread.

Please help.

Thanks

water density. dive computers measure pressure, and transform that into depth by assuming a water density: pressure= density times . acceleration of gravity times height of water column, hence water column = pressure divided by (density times g). Most dive computers in the world allow you to choose between fresh water (1.0 kg/l) and a generic salt water setting (1.025 kg/l, mostly). Some computers allow you to set the density to the 3rd digit after the period. Suunto notoriously does not allow the option to choose a density and instead uses 1.0197 kg/l as this corresponds to the water density defined in EN13319 (which in turn comes out of Bühlmann's choice to use 10 m = 1 bar in his dive tables). So comparing depths between dive computers makes any sense only if you have them set to the same density or you normalize them before comparing them if the densities are different. Next aspect to consider is the "zero" setting. A depth being measured as a pressure, and more importantly a difference in pressure between where you are and the surface, is affected by, well, the pressure on the surface. Going from a sunny day to a rainy day, you can have atmospheric pressure changes of up to 50mbar, which is then 50 cm of water. Good computers update the zero very often, bad ones less often. Only then can you start talking about pressure sensor and product accuracy. By the way as long as the pressure reading is correct, all decompression calculations are ok since they are based on pressure and not depth. 

and when comparing algorithms, Garmin is using ZH-L16C with gradient factors. With gradient factors you can customize the conservatism to an incredible degree. Suunto is simply giving 3 or in some models 5 levels of conservatism. comparing the two can only be done if one uses a reasonably similar starting point, which might be setting them both to the least conservative option, but even that is hit and miss unless you know what is being done. ZH-L16C with gradient factors is beautiful because, as long as no additional fudge factors are introduced, it gives you a perfectly transparent tool. As a matter of fact, the garmin descent tracks extremely well with respect to shearwater, heinrichsweikamp (OSTC) and the mares genius. This I can state after approx 200 dives with mixed gases and up to one hour of decompression time.

The .fit files actually do contain the HR data alongside the dive data. Few tools have been updated to handle both, though.

If you're a developer with some knowledge of node, I updated the fit parser node here https://github.com/jimmykane/fit-parser to handle basic dive data while back, and it should have heart rate info as well.

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