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  • Training Effect and Status from 3rd Party Apps

    Hey guys,

    I have a couple of questions related to the connection between 3rd party apps such as Zwift and Trainer Road with Garmin Connect.

    Although I see my activities from Zwift and Trainer Road in Garmin Connect, I've noted a few things:
    1. The activities do not show any Training Effect from Trainer Road (example the 0-5 scales of Aerobic or Anaerobic). Activities from Zwift do show a Training Effect, but it's always 0.0 Aerobic and never changes.
    2. None of the activities seem to contribute towards my Training Status (according to Garmin, I'm doing nothing with my life )
    3. Rides (activities) from Trainer Road are NOT synced to my Edge 1030 with Physio TrueUp, while rides from Zwift ARE synced to my Edge 1030 with Physio TrueUp. The only thing I want to point out here is that a similar idea app has this working, which means that it must be possible to do, but it's just not working yet (or broken) in Trainer Road for what ever reason.

    So, can anyone explain how can I get the above working with my Garmin Connect?
    I’m pretty sure it’s nothing I need to do, but I’m sitting with support of both Zwift and TrainerRoad and they haven’t really been of much use...

  • #2
    Post a link to a GC activity that came via TrainerRoad and also a GC activity that came from Zwift.

    Comment


    • #3
      Removed.
      Last edited by TheAlteredState; 06-17-2018, 01:11 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Training Effect is a licensed feature from a company called FirstBeat. Have a look at their website.
        Any company can license the use of their algorithms and use them in their devices. Garmin products have different licensed features depending on the model you've got. Training Effect is only available on the recent top end models like the 1030 and 935/Fenix 5 watches. The list on the FirstBeat website will give you the details.
        What's important and key to understand here is that its the watch or Edge that contains the license to use those FirstBeat metrics and not Garmin Connect. Zwift and TrainerRoad have not licensed those features and therefore cannot calculate a value for TE in their FIT files which are synced to Garmin Connect. Garmin Connect does not calculate TrainingEffect it simply displays what's been given to it by the devices.
        TrueUp simply syncs activity details between devices. If the device recording the activity didn't have TrainingEffect then neither will the TrueUp copied to the other devices (even if that device does support it).
        At the present time, if you want TE for all of your activities then you must record the activity using a device that has those licensed features. If that means using an Edge or Forerunner to record an indoor activity then so be it, that's what you have to do.
        Now, what would be interesting is if Garmin Connect was the license holder for the Firstbeat algorithms and it could calculate the Training Effect for any activity uploaded to it. However, that would cost someone some money and would it have to be an agreed licensing model between Garmin and FirstBeat. Personally I would pay for a "Garmin Connect Premium" service to cover those licensing costs if it was in any way possible.
        Dave

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        • #5
          My idea is, if the Garmin Device could use FirstBeat algorithms to calculate Training Effect from the FIT file rather than the action of recording the activity it could calculate these metrcs for any activity. This is because under TrueUp all activities (FIT) files get synced to all devices - well that is my understanding?

          It's a real pain not having Zwift activities counted in the training load especially going into winter, makes it all a bit pointless. Yes I can record rides on garmin device also but then have to remove duplicate entries in GC and Zwift because Zwift has already uploaded.

          Comment


          • #6
            SteveClements, the activity records are not downloaded or otherwise transmitted from Garmin Connect to Garmin wearable devices or cycling computers, because:
            • there isn't a need or good reason to do so, to make Garmin's retail offering in the market complete; and
            • given the limited memory capacity on the Garmin devices, the prospect of a user downloading, say, a few dozen third-party activity records onto a Garmin device suitably licensed for Firstbeat features is just not workable.


            Why is not having Zwift activities counted ‘a pain in the ass’, when it's a feature you never had access to, never were entitled to, and never benefitted from, so you haven't lost anything? There are so many conceivable things in the world that would benefit you, but you don't have and are powerless to get today; do you deem all of them ‘pains in the ass’ too?

            Comment


            • #7
              It would only need to hold 7 days of activities, because that is the duration of the training load and training status, so a handful of extra activities synced back to device is workable in my view.

              The reason it is a pain ... the whole point of training status and load is to keep an eye on how much effort I have exerted in a week, to know if I have not done enough or over done it. If that training status were not to take into account my Zwift indoor rides then it is not a reflection of my training status - hence pointless.

              Any way there is a way around to this, and that is to record the Zwift ride on the Garmin Edge 1030 at the same time, sounds simple and is if you setup the Zwift, GC and Strava connections in a certain way you don't seem to get duplicates either, see here:

              https://forums.garmin.com/forum/into...-not-very-true


              PS, by recording the activity the Zwift activity on the Garmin in parallel is no difference in the storage on the device than if the device had synced back the original FIT file from Zwift ;-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Steve, I agree with your statement od the "problem" and share your desire for a cleaner solution. Its getting to be trainer season and am putting in some efforts in zwift which get auto loaded to Strava. Ideally I would like these efforts to be considered by firstbeats training status algorithm in my 1030 and FR635m without any further effort. I now do the following : record my workout on zwift which gets pushed to Strava and in parallel I record the effort with my 1030, to capture the training impact with the goal of updating training status. As I normally want my workouts which are recorded with my 1030 to be uploaded to Strava and garmin connect (when riding outdoors ) I now get doubled up workouts, so I always go into Strava to remove my workout (as recorded by 1030) and leave the zwift workout.

                It is a "pain" or "hassle", despite the rude commentary of the other poster stating otherwise. I agree it is a nice to have and I do not expect that this functionality should be available, but nonetheless would appreciate. I have a feeling there are more than a handful of people using the 1030 which face a similar conundrum, but it's certainly not a typical use case, so I don't see this being resolved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I came across the same problem for indoor rowing.

                  I use a Concept2 (C2) model D rowing machine. The machine can sync with C2's mobile phone app ErgData over BLE, which in turn can sync with their cloud-based log book over the internet. This October, C2 recently added automatic synchronisation of their log book with Garmin Connect that just needs to be turned on in the settings.

                  So in short ... C2D rower->ErgData->C2 Log->Garmin Connect. Simple!

                  Since C2 haven't licensed FirstBeat algorithms the Training Effect is also not calculated.

                  A workaround for me is to record the entire session on my Fenix 3 Row Indoor app, which then calculates training effect for the session.

                  Therefore a typical sessions involves:
                  - sync HRM with C2D
                  - turn on BLE on C2D to connect with ErgData
                  - Start ErgData app on phone
                  - Start Row Indoor app on watch
                  - Row etc.
                  - Stop Row Indoor app on watch
                  - Sync ErgData with C2 logbook

                  That is all good (kind of), but the only place I can find indoor rowing training effect is in the activity itself. There is no way to report on this. The widgets and reports only report cycling or running training effect.

                  A workaround to this is to sync Garmin Connect with Training Peaks and get a premium membership but it would be nice if it was available in aggregate somewhere in GC.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe I missed it, but I do not see a clear answer to @TheAlterState's initial question. I have a similar problem:

                    1. TrainerRoad workout is executed.
                    2. Workout is sent to Garmin and is visible in Garmin Connect.
                    3. Fenix 5x syncs, but the workout is not copied to the watch.

                    On the 5x, looking at previous workouts, the TR workouts do not appear. I see workouts (runs and swims) that I've done before, after, between the TrainerRoad workouts.

                    As TrueUp is enabled, and has been since it was available, why are the TR workouts not appearing on the 5x?

                    That TR doesn't license FirstBeat is not supposed to relevant, and Garmin, to my knowledge, never indicated this was a requirement. With TrueUp, workouts on other devices, whether a bike computer or TR or whatever, is copied to the watch and then FirstBeat does its magic.

                    What's up here?

                    Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TrainerRoad is not a TrueUp compatible device. Garmin issued a list of compatible devices.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Collecting Data from Devices that Aren’t Compatible
                        Even if one of your devices doesn’t support this update, the activities you record on it will be sent to your compatible devices* through Garmin Connect, so your VO2 max, training status and training load numbers stay up to date.
                        From https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/general/trueup/

                        This would imply that the activity data, once it gets to Garmin Connect, should then sync to your F5X. Is it possible you are getting confused with the details of the workout you've undertaken and the activity data - VO2max, training status and training load? It is the latter that should be synched to your F5X, not the former.
                        Last edited by philipshambrook; 11-25-2018, 04:55 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jsford1 View Post
                          Hi Steve, I agree with your statement od the "problem" and share your desire for a cleaner solution. Its getting to be trainer season and am putting in some efforts in zwift which get auto loaded to Strava. Ideally I would like these efforts to be considered by firstbeats training status algorithm in my 1030 and FR635m without any further effort. I now do the following : record my workout on zwift which gets pushed to Strava and in parallel I record the effort with my 1030, to capture the training impact with the goal of updating training status. As I normally want my workouts which are recorded with my 1030 to be uploaded to Strava and garmin connect (when riding outdoors ) I now get doubled up workouts, so I always go into Strava to remove my workout (as recorded by 1030) and leave the zwift workout.

                          It is a "pain" or "hassle", despite the rude commentary of the other poster stating otherwise. I agree it is a nice to have and I do not expect that this functionality should be available, but nonetheless would appreciate. I have a feeling there are more than a handful of people using the 1030 which face a similar conundrum, but it's certainly not a typical use case, so I don't see this being resolved.
                          This is exactly how I also records my indoor rides. An additional issue I have is that I have discovered that my indoor rides doesnt update training status or vo2max (I am using Vector3 as power meter and using heart rate strap, and I am ridning more than 20 minutes). The reason I did find this thread is that I am looking for information on how to make indoor rides to effect my training status. Appreciate any advice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TrippyZ View Post
                            TrainerRoad is not a TrueUp compatible device. Garmin issued a list of compatible devices.
                            Interesting. Missed that. A bit annoying. Thank you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Unfortuneatly Garmin works well for Garmin activities... not others. Using a third party fitness, recovery, and training-load platform seems like the only option for a lot of people (Strava is one option with Fitness & Freshness ....or TrainingPeaks comes to mind). Otherwise its just a matter of using technology as much as possible to make it all fit together into all the different platforms.

                              Like for me - I use a Stages Spin bike at Gym on occasion... has an awesome ANT/Bluetooth Powermeter, will talk to my HR strap... so I can pull that data into Wahoo Fitness, record a FIT file, share to email and import into Garmin. OR.... I can just ignore the power data and log it as indoor ride with my Garmin FR235 and get Aerobic training effect and HR data w/o Power or speed. OR... I can use a USB drive to pull data for speed/cadence/power/HR all from the Stages bike! but then the data is wrong... and it shows a date of 1989! So then I need to get it 'repaired' to pull the file in properly. So its always a mater of sacrificing data, sacrificing time/effort... to get the results or data thats desired. such is life I suppose.

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