View Full Version : Custom Workout Pace Issues?
10-09-2009, 03:16 PM
There are 2 potentials problems that I wish to highlight and seek advice on so this may take some explaining! - Please do try and follow this!!
Preamble: I have a 310XT with the optional micro foot pod and have designated the foot pod to provide pace data and GPS is turned on for mapping and distance. For the datafields, on screen 1 I have 4 fields, time, distance, pace (just pace, not lap or average) and heart rate. Screen 2 is 1 field, again pace (just pace, not lap or average), Screen 3 is HR and Screen 4 is HR Zone. The data fields are set to scroll fast.
I created a custom workout in GTC (Mac Beta) to run 1 mile in Zone 5 and then repeated it 99 times. This would then record my 1 mile splits for me. As I anticipated the upload to the 310 was not quite right and I corrected the pace to what it should be then headed out for my run.
Because of the custom workout the first screen is preceded with a new screen that was 2 fields, the upper screen being a countdown of the 1 mile target and the lower field entitled Pace (just pace, not lap or average).
I noticed that after glancing at the scrolling screens a few times that the pace was very variable between the 3 views of pace that I had (the custom workout view Pace, the screen 1 and screen 2 Pace views) so I pressed stop on the monitor and changed the screen scrolling to not scroll, left the view on the custom workout screen and then started running again. At this point I noticed another issue...... I was running faster than the zone 5 pace set yet I was not being warned to slow down, however when that 1 mile lap was over and I started a new lap, if I ran faster than the set pace the alarms started operating again. I tested this a couple more times and sure enough, if I stop the run and restarted it, the alarms didn't trigger until a new lap/step was started. (Is this a known issue??)
With that identified I went back to the apparent variation in reporting of pace by the 3 different views. Manually scrolling between the 3 views the custom workout view was usually 30-40 seconds different (fast or slow) to the other two screens, occasionally 10 seconds and sometimes as far out as 90 seconds. Screen 1 and 2 seemed closer together maybe 10-15 seconds.
The alarm never sounded when Screen 1 or 2 showed a pace outside the set pace range.
Is this an issue with when the pace data is being sampled and its different for each screen? or is 1 or some of these screens actually getting GPS pace data regardless of the foot pod pace settings??
Apologies for the long post!!!
10-09-2009, 04:03 PM
Noticed that too. Appears to be some delay in displaying/calculating the pace. We've learnt to go by the alarms and not worry too much about the display. If you set it to slow scroll, the 'correct' pace displays after a second or 2.
Something that needs sorting, but not a show stopper as it's more important to be able to self pace than to be controlled by a beep or vibe. Train to beeps and vibes, but race by feel.:)
10-09-2009, 06:36 PM
I believe the pace on the "custom workouts" screen is actually average pace for that workout segment. Would that account for what you are seeing?
10-09-2009, 08:16 PM
Not really because it does move around when I speed up or slow down. Operating in a pace range of say 4:00/km to 4:10/km for 400m I would expect to see my pace fluctuate between that range, rather than an average.
10-10-2009, 01:20 AM
Ok, understood, though why wasn't the alarm being triggered when the regular screen pace displays showed I was outside of the pace range, only when the custom screen pace was?
The GC pace display shows that I did go slower than intended, but the "speed up" alarm never triggered, only the "slow down" alarm did.
I think I'll try this again but remove the foot pod to see if my suspicious mind is right ;)
10-13-2009, 02:37 PM
I know this will sound obvious, but in what order did you enter the pace ranges in the Garmin 310?
I realized that I entered them backwards the first time I set it up and therefore kept being told to slow down even though I was going far slower than the "range".
Also- I've noticed that there is some sort of buffer on either side of the range. It seems to allow for a 5-10 second window on either side before it will start beeping (but perhaps that's because of the averaging others have mentioned_
10-13-2009, 02:50 PM
I too wondered if the way the range was entered made a difference. So tonight I set them the other way around with the faster pace first (on the left hand side of the screen) but the unit wouldn't save them that way round.... it kept swapping them back.
To your point about the buffer...... I found that I only had to be faster buyt a "displayed" 1 second and the alarm went off to slow down, but I cannot get the unit to trigger for me to speed up.... even running as far 1-2 minutes in pace slower.
Finally I also noticed that the VP pace cannot be altered when using a pace range. I set my recovery run tonight to 9:00 to 10:00 mile pace (or rather the 310 displayed it as 10:00 to 9:00) and the VP I notice was set to 10:18 per mile and this cannot be changed.... whatever pace you set it to to switches back to 10:18.
Is this just a rubbish pace tool and is only good for mapping and HR data??
10-14-2009, 09:04 AM
For whatever reasons, the 310 doesn't work properly with TC's pace or Heart Rate zones. I've brought this to Garmin's attention (how they missed it in the first place is beyond me), and until it's fixed I've been using custom pace zones for each workout.
10-15-2009, 02:30 AM
I only use custom pace zones.
10-15-2009, 10:20 AM
Yeah, I only use custom zones, too, so never saw this issue.
10-15-2009, 05:14 PM
And so tonight I re-created the troublesome workouts in GTC but used custom zones rather than the pace zones driven from the user profile and sure enough all is well.
10-16-2009, 05:42 AM
I'm having this problem as well.
I've entered custom information in the pace zones, then tried to use the zones in a custom workout. (Specifically, I set up Zone 8 as my own 5K pace, and then wrote a workout of 400 meter intervals in zone 8.)
The watch kept buzzing at me and saying "speed up," but the displayed pace was actually faster than I should've been running. (And it wasn't a momentary thing either, because when I got home and downloaded the run, the average pace on several of my intervals was faster than the 5K pace I wanted.)
I think it's got it backwards, also. In the Edit User Profile window I've got the slower pace ("lower limit") on the left hand side and the faster pace ("upper limit") on the right.
I had the recovery intervals limited by HR, and on those it was working fine - displaying "too high" when my HR actually was too high.
It was working fine the other day when I ran mile repeats with custom pace zones specified directly in the workout. I only had the problem when I tried to use the user profile.
I'd like to not have to edit the paces in every interval workout if I get faster - which is the whole point of doing them.
10-16-2009, 06:10 AM
yep, it's the Pace Zones that are killing this functionality - changing the User Profile data is much simpler, though right now it is as useful as a chocolate fire guard.
10-16-2009, 06:32 AM
I experiencing the same issue, would be nice to have this feature implemented in Garmin Connect and/or fix the issue between TC and fr310XT
10-16-2009, 07:06 AM
right now it is as useful as a chocolate fire guard.
Don't laugh, it keeps the fish out. ;)
10-16-2009, 08:06 AM
You should all make sure and send your findings to Garmin Support (http://www.garmin.com/support) so they can fix this issue.
10-16-2009, 09:05 AM
April: I have had 3 conversations with Garmin Support in the UK this week reporting my findings as I tested different things and unfortunately the chap I spoke to (same one each time) didn't really seem that interested and kept saying they can't do anything as the software is developed in the US.
Each time he said he had never heard of anyone else having the same problem so I asked if he read the forums and he said he did.... clearly he doesn't.
This though is the same person to whom I provided to bug report to in January for the 405. Three weeks later he confirmed that the bug was replicatable and the US would be asked to fix it. I enquired a month later and was told that if no one else reported then nothing would be done and no he couldn't tell me if anyone else had reported it!!!!!!
I won't be calling the UK support team again as they are no support!
10-16-2009, 11:45 AM
In the meantime, there's a simple workaround.
Just set the watch to display speed instead of pace, during one of these workouts.
I miss the pace display, but I don't really need it as long as the unit's set to alarm when it's outside my desired zone.
10-16-2009, 12:41 PM
T2GF... are you saying that you can create workouts in the GTC using pace zones rather than custom zones and then providing the 310 is set to display SPEED and not pace that the workout will then perform correctly?
10-16-2009, 07:56 PM
I just did a quick test this afternoon. Didn't have the time to go into any detail.
I loaded up the same workout I did on Wednesday, set the watch to display speed instead of pace, then hit the lap button until it got to one of the intervals where I was supposed to be running 5K pace. I was walking (cooling down from my real workout, actually), and it told me to "speed up."
So it does appear to work, but honestly I haven't gone into it in any more detail than that.
Looks like somebody just reversed a "<" and a ">" in the code.
10-18-2009, 11:18 AM
I used it to pace myself for the first 11 miles of a half marathon today. I set it to display speed instead of pace. In the first few hundred meters after the start, when people were making their way through traffic, it alarmed at me to "speed up." When I exceeded my set pace zone, it alarmed at me to "slow down." Just as it should.
The issue still needs to be fixed - but the workaround does work.
11-03-2009, 02:11 PM
Does anyone have an idea ? It is really fundamental to the enjoyment of the device & such a drawback.:(
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