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POSITIVPAU405
09-03-2009, 07:44 PM
I tried contacting a couple gyms (referred by the new leaf website) for an assessment but they all require you to become a member first. (Equinox, etc...)

Have anyone done the New Leaf assessment and able to upload the profile to the 310xt? If so, do you recommend it?

I'm located in Orange County, CA and would love to find a place that offers this service.
Thanks in advance,
positiv

NDURANCERIDER
09-04-2009, 05:13 AM
I had this done last year and LOVE it. I really need to get retested, but haven't had the time this year.

Anyway, my gym does make people join to get the test or pay extra (I think it was an extra $50 if you weren't a member). Fortunately for me, my company pays my membership as a benefit, so I just had to pay for the test.

I did the treadmill test. After I got done, the trainer sat down with me and went over my results and a custom 12 week training plan designed to help train more efficiently.

My trainer didn't know about the file to load into my Garmin unit, but she contacted New Leaf and got it for me.

I like it a lot better because the data is based on ME. Not some random, average person. I think it's best to get retested every so often. But once you've done the test once, it should be cheaper the next time since you'll already have the mask used.

April

DW152
09-04-2009, 06:04 AM
I'm curious about the New Leaf test. What exactly does it measure? How does it go beyond a standard VO2 or LT test? I looked at their website, but I couldn't find too much in the way about detailed information.

NDURANCERIDER
09-04-2009, 07:40 AM
Check this out:

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2009/08/jake-and-peg-feel-the-burn-for-vo2-testing.html

April

DW152
09-04-2009, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the link to the blog, but it sounds like a regular VO2 test. It doesn't really talk about the New Leaf profile.

What is different about the New Leaf profile? Can I use the results of my regular VO2 test?

I believe you did the New Leaf test. What kind of numbers did they give you, and what did you input into the Garmin?

I did try to get this information from the Garmin website, but that page is quite outdated, including the links to MB.

Thanks.

JCONKLIN
09-04-2009, 07:52 AM
From messages from exercise physiologist Andrew Coggan and others on the wattage list, I've been led to believe that the New Leaf metabolic profile does not have a good reputation for accuracy or more importantly repeatability. I recognize this is an argument from authority, but one I personally find credible.

If you're going to spend money on a metabolic workup, you might want to consider going to one of the sports physiology labs with, for lack of a better word, more "professional" equipment. When I investigated this a few years back, the price was in the same range as the health clubs and trainers that offered New Leaf workups.

Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to take direct advantage of the workup with your Garmin. They could have made it so that you could enter data from a workup from any source, but instead tied it to New Leaf. It's a business partnership, not a feature.

DW152
09-04-2009, 10:03 AM
If you're going to spend money on a metabolic workup, you might want to consider going to one of the sports physiology labs with, for lack of a better word, more "professional" equipment. When I investigated this a few years back, the price was in the same range as the health clubs and trainers that offered New Leaf workups.

Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to take direct advantage of the workup with your Garmin. They could have made it so that you could enter data from a workup from any source, but instead tied it to New Leaf. It's a business partnership, not a feature.

Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at. My coach does the standard tests in her facility, and although they are basic, they are still very useful since they are professionally done. Plus, I understand what the numbers mean.

I might be more interested in the New Leaf if I could find out more about it. What does it do that's different from the standard tests, and what parameters do you program back into the device? I have a couple of ideas, but would like to find out more about it rather than guessing.

POSITIVPAU405
09-04-2009, 11:33 AM
For those who have done the test and have the profile.
Would it be possible to 'edit' the profile file with some software and upload it to the garmin watch? That would be great because I could do the test anywhere and didn't have to be New Leaf only...(I still can't find a place that will do the test here in Orange County for gym non-members)
I'm a member of 24-hour gym and they don't do New Leaf.... :(

R.MCLACHLAN
09-05-2009, 03:27 AM
Given that Garmin ships its products worldwide it seems a shame that New Leaf is only available in the USA. It would be useful if they opened this up a little to allow for direct input of the necessary info from other sources.

POSITIVPAU405
09-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Can anyone who has the profile post a link to it or send me by email?
I would like to see if there is a way to edit it to with my own settings.
Thanks!
positiv

SAEEDI
09-06-2009, 12:41 PM
I believe that information is copyrighted, resulting in a violation of the agreement if the file is copied/transferred to another party. Not to say you wouldn't be able to find one somewhere, but no one should be sending that information through this forum.

DPDONAHUE
10-25-2009, 06:59 PM
I just bought the 305 and really like all of the features but I'm concerned that there is "no simple" heart rate-calories burned fuction for indoor use when the GPS is turned off?! Am I to understand correctly that Garmin has chosen to feature this function only by using a "partnership" with "New Leaf", forcing them to get a detailed physical evaluation?

EKUTTER
10-25-2009, 09:47 PM
The new leaf web site says it is only compatible with the 305 and 405. Does anybody know if it is compatible with the 310? Also, could someone with experience with this give feed back on how they like it?

RVDOWNING
10-26-2009, 12:21 PM
I've had the New Leaf profile done twice and am not happy with the data. For one thing I could not believe that in six weeks I had moved my anaerobic threshold from 138 to 153. Plus, they tried to tell me that my max heart rate had moved from 165 to 183. It isn't possible to raise one's max heart rate. They told me that the max heart rate came from a calculation instead of a measurement, because their test doesn't go far enough to measure a max heart rate. I was actually shocked that they didn't know that one's max heart rate couldn't be raised.

In researching such tests I find that one should ask for the calibration report on the equipment. The oxygen sensor has to be calibrated since they can drift quite a bit, and if it is off then all the data is going to be off.

I've given up using their testing services.

KANSAIBEN
10-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Does anybody know if it is compatible with the 310?

Can't help with feedback as I havent used NL profiles, but they are compatible with the 310.

EKUTTER
10-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Turns out the VO2 max test my local club does is New Leaf and I have heard very poor reviews of their tests. So that matches your experience. I have had my VO2 max tested by a more reputable place here in Seattle and would love to be able to transfer that data into my Garmin rather than having to post process my file after I get home.
It really is sad that Garmin decided to go with a proprietary format with a single provider rather than make this an open source standard. In general, Garmin has been pretty good about making their data formats open. One example is sharing the ANT standard that has helped Garmin leap over Polar where Garmin has now become the defacto standard for Power Meter head units. Hopefully the contract is written such that Garmin can open this up in the future.

SKIERZ2
10-28-2009, 06:01 PM
I did the NewLeaf Test, signed up for the Website, and downloaded through Training Center to my 310XT. I will give you my experience, assessment, and recommendations for what they are worth:

1. Went to a heatlh Club and got the test (I was a member, but did not need to be and the test cost extra and you have to buy a mask for $40).

2. Did the test which I think is basically a Max VO2 test, and sat down with the trainer and went over the results.

3. She developed a 12 week training profile for me which was going to improve my Anaerobic Threshhold (still in process). After the 12 weeks we will measure again.

4. The workouts and the raw data are put in a file which need to be sent to NewLeaf. Then you sign up for their iNewLeaf.com website to download to Training Center ($19 a month, very pricey for what you get, but admittedly I just wanted my data in my watch, so I never looked at the other features). Also, I had problems uploading the Data to NewLeaf and then downloading to TC, so I sent a note to support at NewLeaf which was incredibly responsive and very helpful.

5. After downloading both the Workouts and Data (HR Zones and Calorie Burn by Zone), I started doing the workouts.

6. As I said above, I am still in the process of seeing if the workouts will change my test results for the better.

Now what I think:

1. I am not sure how accurate the test I did was. The HR got stuck on 151 where I am pretty comfortable and that turned out to be my Anaerobic Threshold, on the other hand in looking at figure 5.2 in Sally Edward's book the Complete Book of Triathlons, it would seem my AT would be between 140-158. So, 151 seems reasonable. In retrospect, I wish I would have done the test twice just to be sure.

2. I think that the Calorie Burn information was to high at 18 cals per minute in Zone 1 which was less than 138 bpm. I also think Firstbeat, the default Calorie Calculator, was to low in Zone 1 at around 10 cals per minute. In figure 12.2 of the book mentioned above I should be burning 12-13 cals per minute and every online search I have done about how many calories you burn per mile is between 100-120 (assuming a 10 minute mile which I did). My bottomline given my objective to lose fat and control my weight is that I would rather err on the side of low than high, but if your younger and trying to maintain your weight and make sure your are properly energized it might make sense to err on the side of higher.

3. The Heart Zones that the NewLeaf test came up with turned out to be very hard to stay within for training purposes (something like 131-141 for Zone 1) then 141-147 for Zone 2 and 147- 151 for Zone 3, etc. I found it hard to stay within that narrow range.

Based on all that I have altered the Heart Zones with my trainer's advice to widen the margin to stay in using the Customer HR function. I did a hard reset to clear the NewLeaf Cal Burn information and went back to Firstbeat.

My recommendation would be to go to a Exercise Physiologist associated with a University near you and go through their tests and have them help you determine your workouts based on your objectives. I plan on doing that after my second NewLeaf test just to compare.

Hopefully at some point Garmin will put in a function that will allow you to personalize your Calorie Burn based on HZ. You can currently set up Custom Training Schedules based on your training ideas or what you get from a trainer either in TC or on your watch and it is pretty easy to do.

That is all from an obsessive fan of the 310XT and its potential in helping us train and fuel properly.

EKUTTER
10-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the thorough review. So what do you get for the $19 / month? If you stop paying, does your 310 stop using the data or can you just no longer update it? So it sounds like you were never actually given a file that gets uploaded into the 310 but rather Training Center put it straight from the New Leaf web site into the watch. That would make it much harder to come up with a custom solution by-passing New Leaf.

RVDOWNING
10-29-2009, 06:27 AM
If you want to do heart rate based training, may I recommend the famous Hadd (http://www.netrocam.com/homesite/originalpages/running/hadd/HaddArticle.html) post. I've been following his training methodology for about a year now. A graph of the Hadd Assessments (http://www.netrocam.com/homesite/originalpages/running/hadd/HaddTest.html) shows increased speed at each heart rate. The main reason I had the New Leaf assessment done was to try to determine my max heart rate upon which this training is based, and unfortunately that is something they do not do well.

SKIERZ2
11-01-2009, 08:52 PM
I am not sure what else you get for the $19. You may want to search their website and see. Also, once you download the file it stays, in fact I am trying to figure out a way to get rid of it once and for all as I said in my last note, I am more comfortable with the Firstbeat Calorie Burn information than the NewLeaf.

I think if Garmin would allow us to create a profile based on independent excercise physiologists test, that would be optimal.

SKIERZ2
11-01-2009, 08:54 PM
I forgot to answer your Training Center question. It is not hard to input the training plan you get from a trainer using TC once you get the hang of it. It is menu driven and they supply some templates that I recommend you use and edit to get the hang of it and see how it is done.

JASONCKRUSE
11-03-2011, 01:30 AM
1. Perform the following Google Search ...:D filetype:nlf site:garmin.com :D
2. Scroll to the bottom the file. It's simple to edit the calories burned by HR zone information
3. Install the Garmin Training center app... import the .NLF file to your watch.

Enjoy


Can anyone who has the profile post a link to it or send me by email?
I would like to see if there is a way to edit it to with my own settings.
Thanks!
positiv

JASONCKRUSE
11-03-2011, 01:35 AM
In that case... bad Garmin, bad Garmin

http://developer.garmin.com/download/newLeafSample.nlf

EKUTTER
11-03-2011, 12:28 PM
In that case... bad Garmin, bad Garmin

http://developer.garmin.com/download/newLeafSample.nlf

Hey, this is awesome. Thanks Jason. Took a bit of fiddling to figure out what I was doing wrong but I have been able to upload a profile to each my Edge 800 and FR310. Just as a test, I set biking to burn 5 cal / minute, running to burn 10 cal in every HR range. After 9 minutes on my FR310 set to run it shows 90 calories. My Edge, set to biking (no option here) is showing 25 after 5 minutes.

So starting from the file listed, just using notepad, I deleted the individual workouts, but left the empty Running, Biking, and other sections.
<Workouts>
<Running Name="Running"/>
<Biking Name="Biking"/>
<Other Name="Other"/>
</Workouts>

Then changed the personal info and HR zones. Lastly replaced the TotalKCalMin tags for each HR range. Note you have to use the 10 beat buckets in the sample file. No using 105 - 115, or 100 - 119 ranges.

The kcal/min data I have from a VO2 max test is bucketed by my HR zones, not nice even 10 beat ranges. But the .NLF format requires 10 beat buckets. So I'm going to have to do some work to fit my buckets into the profile buckets, but that won't be too hard. The final calorie counts will be slightly different but the total calories should be nearly identical for a workout.

CBJESSEENH
12-21-2012, 07:13 AM
VALIDATION OF NEWLEAF VO2 TESTING
Donna M. Polk, MD, MPH;1 Timothy Graves, MS;1 Samantha Lewis, BA;1
Richard Gordon, MA;1 Maura Paul-Labrador, MPH;1 Holden McRae,
PhD;2 C. Noel Bairey Merz, MD,1 1Cedars-Sinai Medical Center;
2Pepperdine University
Introduction: VO2 testing provides an accurate measure of aerobic fitness, however
utilization is limited due to availability and expense of a metabolic cart testing. The
NewLeaf VO2 testing system is a commercially available portable gas exchange
measurement system. We comparatively tested the NewLeaf VO2 system against
metabolic cart testing.
Methods: 20 healthy men and women volunteers were randomized to undergo maximal
VO2 testing using a Medical Graphics Cardio O2 metabolic cart, or New Leaf VO2
testing system, using a modified Bruce protocol. A repeat maximal VO2 test was then
performed on the alternate system within 8 days of the first one to reduce training
effects.
Results: Overall, 65% of participants were female, average age was 36.2 yrs, and BMI
of 26.9 kg/m2. The mean difference in VO2 max between tests was 0.805 ml/min (SD T
6.27). The intra-class correlation coefficient was 0.81 (P G .0001). Measured VO2 over
time by both systems is seen in figure below. A nonsignificant trend towards a variation
in VO2 max between systems was observed among premenopausal women (83%)
compared to post-menopausal women (17%) and men combined (P + .11).
Conclusions: New Leaf VO2 testing system measures max VO2 with high precision
and validity compared to metabolic cart testing. These results support the use of the
NewLeaf VO2 testing system in a variety of settings.